Map Challenge

This is what the world looks like near the end of the twentieth century: What happened?

renaissance_map_1.gif
 

Raymann

Banned
A rock and ice comet passes by Earth every 200 years and kill half of the people on the planet, only the strongest societies survive and then only just.
 
Raymann said:
A rock and ice comet passes by Earth every 200 years and kill half of the people on the planet, only the strongest societies survive and then only just.
Nothing quite that dramatic. The POD is around 1000 or so, perhaps a little earlier.
 
Islam arose but was suppressed early or driven back into Arabia.

Russia unified and its new single ruler pinched the Islamic title Caliph but did not necessarily bring Islam in.

Christians pinching Islamic words is known :: I read that in Christian Armenia in the wars that it has had in recent years, a self defence body arose and called itself "Pidai". That is clearly the effects of Armenian phonetics on the Arabic Islamic word "Fidâ'îyîn" = "fedayeen", even though I would have thouight that Christian Armenia has no reason at all to like any Islamic symbols.
 

Redbeard

Banned
The gene for seasickness must have developed out of control - it appears like mankind in general has been very hesitating to cross oceans.

Regards

Steffen Redbeard
 
Anthony Appleyard said:
Islam arose but was suppressed early or driven back into Arabia.

Russia unified and its new single ruler pinched the Islamic title Caliph but did not necessarily bring Islam in.
Both Russia and the Persian Empire are Islamic.
 
Redbeard said:
The gene for seasickness must have developed out of control - it appears like mankind in general has been very hesitating to cross oceans.
Well, if its not obvious from the map, civilization has suffered a few, setbacks.
 
Hmmmm....POD is 1000AD and nothing quite as dramatic as plague or comet?

Somehow, somewhere--humans get it into their heads that sea travel/exploration is a sin or bad for them.

Or something weird and nasty moved into the earth's oceans? :confused:
 

Diamond

Banned
But if ocean travel were impossible or forbidden, for whatever reason, the stronger state societies would've expanded landward, since they couldn't take the path of least resistance and establish overseas colonies, right? There wouldn't be any tribal chiefdoms left, at least in Africa and Asia...
:confused:
 
And what's up with the white areas? What happened--polar icecaps shifted?

Hmmmm....curiouser and curiouser....

Give us a hint here DN!--is it one event or a series of events?
 
<i>A rock and ice comet passes by Earth every 200 years and kill half of the people on the planet, only the strongest societies survive and then only just.</i> :)

Either it would have to crash on the surface--then it wouldn't be coming back--or it would have to be a different comet every 200 years, and that's a bit ASBish.

The Huns brought a worse plague to Europe in 500 AD; the Vikings brought another bad plague just when Constantine was about to unify France; another barbarian invasion in 1000 brought yet another bad plague and sacked Europe.

Western Rome fell earlier, Eastern Rome survived; Persia survived.

The Byzantines got lucky and had some decent emperors who didn't antagonize so many of their subjects; the early Caliphate had some bad luck with incompetent rulers.

Early Islam didn't emphasize having a jihad right away; they took their time about spreading Islam, so they weren't so destructive of other states; the Persian emperor converted but remained on his throne.

The Pope at Rome didn't get as much political power and influence as he did OTL; the Apostolic Confederation is probably the result of something similar to the Reformation.

Somebody similar to Augustine went into politics, stayed in Alexandria and unified the locals and was able to prevent the Moslems from taking over entirely.

There may have been isolated expeditions of Europeans to the Americas, and survivors shared European ideas and gunpowder with the locals, and set up local kingdoms. They did know about the gold, but didn't want to share it with the kings back home, and maybe their ships were damaged, and they felt like it was easier to just stay put.
 
sunsurf said:
The Huns brought a worse plague to Europe in 500 AD; the Vikings brought another bad plague just when Constantine was about to unify France; another barbarian invasion in 1000 brought yet another bad plague and sacked Europe.
Actually, you're the closest yet, though the Huns, being 500 years before the POD, went exactly as in OTL. And I think you mean Charlemagne, not Constantine.

sunsurf said:
Western Rome fell earlier, Eastern Rome survived; Persia survived.
The West fell on schedule, as did Sassanid Persia. As I said, this is a Muslim Persian Empire. We have one in OTL, don't we? At least, until the Shah got kicked out.

sunsurf said:
The Byzantines got lucky and had some decent emperors who didn't antagonize so many of their subjects; the early Caliphate had some bad luck with incompetent rulers.
Nope, though Manzikert did get butterflied away.

sunsurf said:
Early Islam didn't emphasize having a jihad right away; they took their time about spreading Islam, so they weren't so destructive of other states; the Persian emperor converted but remained on his throne.
Islam went the same as it did in OTL, until the POD. They stretched from Spain to India.

sunsurf said:
The Pope at Rome didn't get as much political power and influence as he did OTL; the Apostolic Confederation is probably the result of something similar to the Reformation.
Nope. The Pope still has alot of power. Moreso, in some ways, than in OTL. The Confederation is devoutly Orthodox Catholic, and is basicly an analogue to the Holy Roman Empire, though not Imperial in any sense. There's 12 states, btw.

sunsurf said:
Somebody similar to Augustine went into politics, stayed in Alexandria and unified the locals and was able to prevent the Moslems from taking over entirely.
The Muslims still took over. The Coptic Empire was basicly formed from a revolt (with some Ethiopian assistance).

sunsurf said:
There may have been isolated expeditions of Europeans to the Americas, and survivors shared European ideas and gunpowder with the locals, and set up local kingdoms. They did know about the gold, but didn't want to share it with the kings back home, and maybe their ships were damaged, and they felt like it was easier to just stay put.
Nope. Well, there were at least 2 expeditions to reach America. One was in AD 1000, as in OTL. Another was around the 1500s. Neither established any presence, or gave any technology, though the second did bring something over... (and its not smallpox)
 
DominusNovus said:
I never said anything about no plagues. :p

Motherf*cker! :D

Knew I should have been more careful with my assumptions!--Ok--Is this sort of like 'Year of Rice and Salt' scenario-- massive Black Death (far worse than OTL) sweeps through civilized world in 1000 AD. Or a series of OTL versions of the plague nails Europe and Asia every century or two starting in 1000 AD for several centuries.

Still thinking about the rest..
 
Doctor What said:
Motherf*cker! :D

Knew I should have been more careful with my assumptions!--Ok--Is this sort of like 'Year of Rice and Salt' scenario-- massive Black Death (far worse than OTL) sweeps through civilized world in 1000 AD. Or a series of OTL versions of the plague nails Europe and Asia every century or two starting in 1000 AD for several centuries.

Still thinking about the rest..
Ohh, you're the closest yet.

Yes, its a series of plagues. The first is a mutation from some (fictional) disease brought back from America by the Norse in AD 1000, called the North Plague (all I could think of, I'm open to other names). It mutates a decade or so later, and spreads throughout Eurasia. While not directly fatal, its very contagious and debilitating and weakens you enough so that something else could kill ya.

Then, you've got the Bubonic Plague hitting full force a few centuries later.

Then, the North Plague gets spread back to North America when somebody tries to cross the Atlantic (and doesn't make it back, of course). The North plague isn't a primarily "urban" disease like smallpox, so the whole of the two continents is devastated, leaving the Americas of 2000 about equal to those of 1500.

I might put another plague in somewhere, perhaps a uber spanish flu.

Of course, its not just the Plagues that caused all this. There are other sources.
 
DominusNovus said:
Ohh, you're the closest yet.

Yes, its a series of plagues. The first is a mutation from some (fictional) disease brought back from America by the Norse in AD 1000, called the North Plague (all I could think of, I'm open to other names). It mutates a decade or so later, and spreads throughout Eurasia. While not directly fatal, its very contagious and debilitating and weakens you enough so that something else could kill ya.

Then, you've got the Bubonic Plague hitting full force a few centuries later.

Then, the North Plague gets spread back to North America when somebody tries to cross the Atlantic (and doesn't make it back, of course). The North plague isn't a primarily "urban" disease like smallpox, so the whole of the two continents is devastated, leaving the Americas of 2000 about equal to those of 1500.

I might put another plague in somewhere, perhaps a uber spanish flu.

Of course, its not just the Plagues that caused all this. There are other sources.

Ok--the North Plague could be a mutated version of the Hanta Virus
http://www.explorenorth.com/library/weekly/aa052300a.htm

It's spread by mouse droppings and it's symptoms are very similar to a nasty case of the flu plus the primary carriers are deer mice (which are found throughout the circumpolar area) so we've already got a north connection there. Maybe mutate it so it's more infectious but less deadly. It's easily spread to the rodent population so once it's hit a few rodents in the wild it can spread to the rest of the population in the wild as well.

Ok--so Eurasia is nailed by the NP in 1000, then nailed by the black death in 1350. Somewhere along the line I'm thinking some important Hindu and/or Buddhist rulers are butterflied away. I'm basing this on the fact that China is basically split in two and very small and India is just a bunch of minor countries --something kept them from unifying and getting their act together. I'm just guessing here, mind you.

The european powers (or what was left of them) have basically become isolationists and keep dealings with the outside world to a minimum. However, with all these uber-plagues nailing the world, a more fundamentalist branch has established themselves. This didn't sit well with a few groups and they've tried to split themselves off from the orthodox guys. Coptics were the only ones to really succeed. Oh hell--I'm going to go for broke here and say that ALL the powers that were around in 1000-1300 that survived basically took a 'screw the world-we're keeping to ourselves' attitude for a while.

Beyond that..... :confused:
 
Doctor What said:
Ok--the North Plague could be a mutated version of the Hanta Virus
http://www.explorenorth.com/library/weekly/aa052300a.htm

It's spread by mouse droppings and it's symptoms are very similar to a nasty case of the flu plus the primary carriers are deer mice (which are found throughout the circumpolar area) so we've already got a north connection there. Maybe mutate it so it's more infectious but less deadly. It's easily spread to the rodent population so once it's hit a few rodents in the wild it can spread to the rest of the population in the wild as well.
Cool. A real disease to base this on. Nice.

Doctor What said:
Ok--so Eurasia is nailed by the NP in 1000, then nailed by the black death in 1350. Somewhere along the line I'm thinking some important Hindu and/or Buddhist rulers are butterflied away. I'm basing this on the fact that China is basically split in two and very small and India is just a bunch of minor countries --something kept them from unifying and getting their act together. I'm just guessing here, mind you.
Well, India never really unified much before, so I figured it wouldn't be unified now. Though, nothing says that has to stay the way it is. The Chinese states have been evolving on a divergent course since the "mongols" (not quite the same as in OTL) took over. Seems that the Mongol Khan in that area was a fanatic Nestorian. Han China isn't Nestorian, mind you (though there is definately a sizable minority), but its culture is changed dramaticly.

Doctor What said:
The european powers (or what was left of them) have basically become isolationists and keep dealings with the outside world to a minimum. However, with all these uber-plagues nailing the world, a more fundamentalist branch has established themselves. This didn't sit well with a few groups and they've tried to split themselves off from the orthodox guys. Coptics were the only ones to really succeed. Oh hell--I'm going to go for broke here and say that ALL the powers that were around in 1000-1300 that survived basically took a 'screw the world-we're keeping to ourselves' attitude for a while.
Nah, no real isolationist thoughts. European societies were just too poor, depopulated, and chaotic to be expansionist (except for a few, like the Romans [Byzantines], British, and Scandinavians). The Copts weren't really rebelling against the Orthodox Church, more against the Muslims, who ruled their territory. Coptic-Orthodox Catholic relations are relatively good (neither condemns each other at this point), but still somewhat distrustful, though the Copts do send representatives to Ecumenical Councils.
 
DominusNovus said:
Cool. A real disease to base this on. Nice.

Glad you approve :)


DominusNovus said:
Well, India never really unified much before, so I figured it wouldn't be unified now. Though, nothing says that has to stay the way it is. The Chinese states have been evolving on a divergent course since the "mongols" (not quite the same as in OTL) took over. Seems that the Mongol Khan in that area was a fanatic Nestorian. Han China isn't Nestorian, mind you (though there is definately a sizable minority), but its culture is changed dramaticly.

Hmmmm...I knew I shoulda paid more attention in class....
Different 'mongols' you say? Hmmmm....

DominusNovus said:
Nah, no real isolationist thoughts. European societies were just too poor, depopulated, and chaotic to be expansionist (except for a few, like the Romans [Byzantines], British, and Scandinavians). The Copts weren't really rebelling against the Orthodox Church, more against the Muslims, who ruled their territory. Coptic-Orthodox Catholic relations are relatively good (neither condemns each other at this point), but still somewhat distrustful, though the Copts do send representatives to Ecumenical Councils.

Damn--thought for sure I had the isolationist part right.

Ok 1.5/3 correct (I'm giving myself 1/2 point for the second answer as I'm guessing somebody important in that region/era got butterflied away but not the way I originally envisioned)
 
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