Many Ways to a Better Mini

Which Mini Replacement on the list should have gone into production?


  • Total voters
    15
  • Poll closed .
Up to BMC selling off Morris, I'm with you. I don't think BMC would be thrilled with Leyland having an okay to build/sell Minis under the Morris badge, whatever the deal looked like: they'd be undercutting themselves, losing Morris' sales to a competitor. That seems irrational to me. Selling the company, sure; selling all the badge-engineered models with it, no.

Looks like it.:p

Not necessarily

BMC had a serious need to rationalize their brands (kill off Riley, Wolseley, etc) to prevent product overlap as well as a need to invest in new tooling for the A-Series engines that while superseded by the upcoming 9X engines still had plenty of life left (along with the existing classic Mini, ADO16).

Perhaps a better way of explaining the intent is that Leyland would have the rights to the A-Series (to slot below the ATL Triumph Slant-4 until smaller or 3-cylinder versions appear), classic Mini and ADO16 to develop them as they wish upon BMC releasing its all-new generation of models in the late-60s (powered by 750-1300cc 9X, 2.0 O-Series and 1600-2800cc E-Series engines).

That way Leyland's updated version of the Mini might end up being called the Morris / Innocenti Clubman (with BMC keeping the Mini name), while Leyland's updated version of ADO16 would essentially be a 3/5-door hatchback version of the OTL Austin Victoria called the Morris / Innocenti Nomad (powered by 1098-1293cc A-OHC and 1400-1600cc Triumph Slant-4 engines) that as the following pictures of the real-life 4-door saloon model shows would complement the Triumph Dolomite.

Morris under Leyland would essentially be downmarket and utilitarian Triumphs, Innocenti being the stylish "continental" marque and adopting the Bertone styling theme on the Innocenti Clubman (ATL Innocenti Mini) for its models including Clubman-based 2-door convertible / coupe versions.

The Morris / Innocenti Nomad would soon be replaced by a near Allegro-sized version of ADO74 with a smaller version of the platform forming the basis of a sporty-premium 3-door hatchback-coupe Triumph Herald supermini, with smaller ADO74 versions not being developed further due to featuring inferior packaging in comparison to the Clubman models.

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Apache-Simon-Woodward.jpg
 
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Masked Grizzly said:
BMC had a serious need to rationalize their brands (kill off Riley, Wolseley, etc) to prevent product overlap as well as a need to invest in new tooling for the A-Series engines that while superseded by the upcoming 9X engines still had plenty of life left (along with the existing classic Mini, ADO16).

Perhaps a better way of explaining the intent is that Leyland would have the rights to the A-Series (to slot below the ATL Triumph Slant-4 until smaller or 3-cylinder versions appear), classic Mini and ADO16 to develop them as they wish upon BMC releasing its all-new generation of models in the late-60s (powered by 750-1300cc 9X, 2.0 O-Series and 1600-2800cc E-Series engines).

That way Leyland's updated version of the Mini might end up being called the Morris / Innocenti Clubman (with BMC keeping the Mini name), while Leyland's updated version of ADO16 would essentially be a 3/5-door hatchback version of the OTL Austin Victoria called the Morris / Innocenti Nomad (powered by 1098-1293cc A-OHC and 1400-1600cc Triumph Slant-4 engines) that as the following pictures of the real-life 4-door saloon model shows would complement the Triumph Dolomite.
I think I've got you: the Morris Mini disappears as part of the deal (replaced by the Nomad), while the original Austin continues as the updated New Mini (under either the Mini or Clubman name). Correct? If so, that makes sense to me. (I wouldn't rename, unless you've added a radically restyled model, like the fastback; my choice wouldn't be to recycle a Mini line-name, but...)
Masked Grizzly said:
Morris under Leyland would essentially be downmarket and utilitarian Triumphs, Innocenti being the stylish "continental" marque and adopting the Bertone styling theme on the Innocenti Clubman (ATL Innocenti Mini) for its models including Clubman-based 2-door convertible / coupe versions.

The Morris / Innocenti Nomad would soon be replaced by a near Allegro-sized version of ADO74 with a smaller version of the platform forming the basis of a sporty-premium 3-door hatchback-coupe Triumph Herald supermini, with smaller ADO74 versions not being developed further due to featuring inferior packaging in comparison to the Clubman models.
Turning Morris into a low-budget Truimph works for me. (The thought of a Morris *TR-7 seems a bit odd.:p)

Am I wrong thinking Innocenti TTL wouldn't be able to body BMC's Minis?:( (Of course, if you can get a Bertone or 'farina body with lines like OTL's, or better...:cool:)
 
I think I've got you: the Morris Mini disappears as part of the deal (replaced by the Nomad), while the original Austin continues as the updated New Mini (under either the Mini or Clubman name). Correct? If so, that makes sense to me. (I wouldn't rename, unless you've added a radically restyled model, like the fastback; my choice wouldn't be to recycle a Mini line-name, but...)

Turning Morris into a low-budget Truimph works for me. (The thought of a Morris *TR-7 seems a bit odd.:p)

Am I wrong thinking Innocenti TTL wouldn't be able to body BMC's Minis?:( (Of course, if you can get a Bertone or 'farina body with lines like OTL's, or better...:cool:)

The Morris Mini is essentially replaced by the Morris Clubman (either as an updated Mini or an updated Mini in Clubman-bodied hatchback form), while the Morris 1100/1300 is replaced by the ATL Morris Nomad 3/5-door hatchback. BMC meanwhile replaces the ATL Mini and Austin 1100/1300 with the 9X, the smaller version replaces the Mini (retaining the Mini name) while the larger version called the Allegro replaces the Austin 1100/1300.

One advantage for Morris is that the ATL Marina now pitched above the Morris Nomad, can incorporate more Triumph components and not be weighed down by the heavy B-Series.

Though Morris would probably not build versions of the TR7 convertible / coupe, they might build a proper ATL Morris Marina Coupe and possibly look to develop a version of the Morris Clubman-based convertible and coupe in the style of ADO70 as the Morris Monaco (albeit much lighter then OTL). - http://www.aronline.co.uk/blogs/concepts/concepts-and-prototypes/sports-car-projects-ado70/

Innocenti would utilize the Morris Clubman as a basis for the ATL Bertone styled model instead of the original Mini.
 
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Masked Grizzly said:
The Morris Mini is essentially replaced by the Morris Clubman (either as an updated Mini or an updated Mini in Clubman-bodied hatchback form), while the Morris 1100/1300 is replaced by the ATL Morris Nomad 3/5-door hatchback. BMC meanwhile replaces the ATL Mini and Austin 1100/1300 with the 9X, the smaller version replaces the Mini (retaining the Mini name) while the larger version called the Allegro replaces the Austin 1100/1300.
That makes sense.
Masked Grizzly said:
Though Morris would probably not build versions of the TR7 convertible / coupe, they might build a proper ATL Morris Marina Coupe and possibly look to develop a version of the Morris Clubman-based convertible and coupe in the style of ADO70 as the Morris Monaco (albeit much lighter then OTL). - http://www.aronline.co.uk/blogs/concepts/concepts-and-prototypes/sports-car-projects-ado70/
Innocenti would utilize the Morris Clubman as a basis for the ATL Bertone styled model instead of the original Mini.
I'm thinking you could turn the Triumph saloons over to Morris, & let Triumph concentrate on sports cars. (Too niche?)

I like the looks of the ADO70.:cool: I'm wondering, tho, if there's room in a lineup for the ADO70 & both fastback & roadster on a Mini/9X platform...
 
That makes sense.

I'm thinking you could turn the Triumph saloons over to Morris, & let Triumph concentrate on sports cars. (Too niche?)

I like the looks of the ADO70.:cool: I'm wondering, tho, if there's room in a lineup for the ADO70 & both fastback & roadster on a Mini/9X platform...

Definitely too niche, since ATL Triumph has their own replacements for the Triumph 2000/2500 (called Triumph Puma) and the Dolomite (under Project Bobcat being pretty much a downsized Triumph Puma).

ADO70 and any potential coupe / roadster versions of the 9X would be from two different companies, Leyland's Morris might possibly use ADO70 as the basis for a Morris Monaco while Leyland's Innocenti might develop its own version as a replacement for the Innocenti Spider.

BMC meanwhile may develop 9X-based coupe / roadster models possibly as entry-level MGs sitting below the ATL MG Midget (MG EX234).
 
Masked Grizzly said:
Definitely too niche, since ATL Triumph has their own replacements for the Triumph 2000/2500 (called Triumph Puma) and the Dolomite (under Project Bobcat being pretty much a downsized Triumph Puma).
Fair 'nuf. It's just not saloons (sedans; I'm not a Brit:p) I think of when I think "Triumph".;)
Masked Grizzly said:
ADO70 and any potential coupe / roadster versions of the 9X would be from two different companies, Leyland's Morris might possibly use ADO70 as the basis for a Morris Monaco while Leyland's Innocenti might develop its own version as a replacement for the Innocenti Spider.

BMC meanwhile may develop 9X-based coupe / roadster models possibly as entry-level MGs sitting below the ATL MG Midget (MG EX234).
I can readily see those as MGs.:cool:

Aside: what are the chances for a V8 Mini Cooper S**?:)cool:)
 
Fair 'nuf. It's just not saloons (sedans; I'm not a Brit:p) I think of when I think "Triumph".;)

I can readily see those as MGs.:cool:

Aside: what are the chances for a V8 Mini Cooper S**?:)cool:)

No chance for a V8 Mini Cooper, having said that it might be possible for the 9X Mini to feature 6-cylinder versions of the 9X engine being compact enough to be fitted transversely.

In real-life during the 80s an MG Metro was fitted with a 1300cc 6-cylinder 9X engine that put out around 100 hp (shown below) being the last project Alec Issigonis worked on before he died (https://www.flickr.com/photos/austin7nut/4362763418/in/photostream/), given more development including higher capacity versions such an engine might have put out even more power though it seems a bit redundant compared to higher capacity versions of the 4-cylinder 9X engine.

6cylmetro.jpg
 
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Masked Grizzly said:
No chance for a V8 Mini Cooper
:(:( Oh, well.
Masked Grizzly said:
it might be possible for the 9X Mini to feature 6-cylinder versions of the 9X engine being compact enough to be fitted transversely.

In real-life during the 80s an MG Metro was fitted with a 1300cc 6-cylinder 9X engine that put out around 100 hp (shown below) being the last project Alec Issigonis worked on before he died (https://www.flickr.com/photos/austin7nut/4362763418/in/photostream/), given more development including higher capacity versions such an engine might have put out even more power though it seems a bit redundant compared to higher capacity versions of the 4-cylinder 9X engine.
That's fine by me.:cool: (I have to say:cool:, tho, the idea of a Mini with an I6 seems really odd.;)). A high-powered version, with 100+hp?:cool::cool:
 
:(:( Oh, well.

That's fine by me.:cool: (I have to say:cool:, tho, the idea of a Mini with an I6 seems really odd.;)). A high-powered version, with 100+hp?:cool::cool:

Still though it might be smoother then the equivalent high-powered (and lighter) 4-cylinder 9X, the 100 hp + 4-cylinder would have much better MPG.

Found some more data for the total weight of the following engines and transmission:
  • A-Series = 337 lb
  • 9X I4 = 212 lb [FONT=Charter BT,Garamond,Monotype Garamond]
    [/FONT]
  • 9X I6 = 275 lb
  • K-Series = 251 lb (1.1 K-Series)
The late-60s 1.0 9X I4 made the same power as the later 1990 60 hp 1.1 K-Series with only 2 lb ft per litre less torque then the latter. - http://jyanet.com/cap/1999/0919fe2.htm
 
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Masked Grizzly said:
Still though it might be smoother then the equivalent high-powered (and lighter) 4-cylinder 9X, the 100 hp + 4-cylinder would have much better MPG.

Found some more data for the total weight of the following engines and transmission:
  • A-Series = 337 lb
  • 9X I4 = 212 lb [FONT=Charter BT,Garamond,Monotype Garamond]
    [/FONT]
  • 9X I6 = 275 lb
  • K-Series = 251 lb (1.1 K-Series)
The late-60s 1.0 9X I4 made the same power as the later 1990 60 hp 1.1 K-Series with only 2 lb ft per litre less torque then the latter. - http://jyanet.com/cap/1999/0919fe2.htm
Not opposed to an I6, just find it strange.;) Smoother is good.:) So is lighter.:) (Actually, lighter saves needing to make more hp.;))
 
Not opposed to an I6, just find it strange.;) Smoother is good.:) So is lighter.:) (Actually, lighter saves needing to make more hp.;))

The 9X I6 was intended mainly for the ADO16-sized replacement though IMHO a potentially interesting application for the 9X I6 engine had it been produced, would be in an mid-engined 9X-based MG sports car (below ADO21 with styling elements from the Austin Zanda concept) for rallying use as a British equivalent of the Alpine A110/A310 and Lancia Stratos, while being much smaller and lighter then either.
 
Masked Grizzly said:
The 9X I6 was intended mainly for the ADO16-sized replacement though IMHO a potentially interesting application for the 9X I6 engine had it been produced, would be in an mid-engined 9X-based MG sports car (below ADO21 with styling elements from the Austin Zanda concept) for rallying use as a British equivalent of the Alpine A110/A310 and Lancia Stratos, while being much smaller and lighter then either.
Works for me. (Anything midengined:cool:)
 
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