Manufacture a claim to the Roman Empire for every country

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by SeaCambrian, Dec 5, 2018 at 7:22 PM.

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  1. Fabius Maximus Unus qui nobis cunctando restituit rem

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    The Moon. The Catholic Church is the spiritual heir to the Roman Empire, although since the 1860s its temporal power has been sadly circumscribed. According to the Code of Canon Law, any newly-discovered territory falls under the jurisdiction of the bishop from whose diocese the expedition set out. Since the Apollo space mission set out from Cape Canaveral in the Diocese of Orlando, this means that the Moon falls under the jurisdiction of the Bishop of Orlando. (No, really.) So the Moon falls under the jurisdiction of a bishop of the Catholic Church, and, since there are no civil authorities currently claiming control over the satellite, the Church's power there is not circumscribed either spiritually or temporally. Hence the Moon is where the writ of the heir to the Roman Empire most truly applies, and the Moon is of all places the one that can most properly be considered part of the Roman domains.
     
  2. Neoteros Dux Mediolani

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    Liechtenstein: as the last remnant of the Holy Roman Empire.
     
  3. Albert.Nik Well-Known Member

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    France,Portugal,Switzerland and Spain are the best candidates I can think of.
     
  4. telynk Well-Known Member

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    Canada: Our Senate is the true successor to the Roman Senate because:
    1. Senators serve for life.
    2. The Senate has very little real power.
     
  5. Danifa94 Advocatus rei publicae

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    Venezuela.
    After all, it was part of the Spanish Monarchy, and since the last Palaiologos sold his titles and royal and imperial rights to the throne of the Eastern Roman Empire, to the Catholic Monarchs, it was part of the titles and rights of the Spanish kings. However, the Abdication of Bayona had the consecuence of restoring all of the Monarchy´s rights back to the Spanish Nation. In 1812, the Cortes recognized in a retroactive disposition that the Spanish Nation included the Spaniards from the Old and the New World. However as Venezuela´s Founding Fathers proved in the Declaration of Independence, the disolution, sustitution and destruction of the different governments in Spain forced Venezuela to keep such rights safe by exercising them, taking charge of their own luck and conservation. Also as said by the same Founding Fathers, the upheaval, disorder and conquest in the peninsula had dissolved the Spanish Nation. It is obvious and logical then to consider that with the Spanish Nation and all links between their integral parts dissolved, all of the former members receive their share of the collective rights they possessed as part of the Spanish Nation. And with the rights to the Roman Empire being part of such collective rights of the Spanish Nation that Venezuela received upon Independence, then is clear as the full moon that Venezuela has a most rightful and legal claim to the Roman Empire.
     
  6. ByzantineCaesar Secretary-General of URSAL

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    Just checked my sources again and I did mean Theo II, in this occasion at least:

    Which roughly translates into “take for yourself the shield of the faith so that you may repel the enemy attacks. Defend yourself against heretics, according to your customs and that of your superiors, the state of the Church, so that your Empire may be defended by Christ, as was promised by Pope Leo to Theodosius Augustus”. Pope Leo I reigned from 440 to 461, so that means Theodosius II. The Portuguese were putting themselves forward here as the rightful heirs of Theodosius II’s Christian mission, and therefore heirs to the Roman Empire.
     
  7. SeaCambrian Well-Known Member

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    Finland and Rome are two sides of the same denarius.

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Atamolos Pontifex, princeps, and augustus

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    That’s the joke my dude
     
  9. Albert.Nik Well-Known Member

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    Finland,being one of the most highly advanced and a progressive country today,I think they have a legitimate claim.
     
  10. markus meecham Marxism-Leninism-Bricksquad thought Kicked Banned

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    We all know Finland's true claim is to the throne in Karakorum, as it should be.
     
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  11. Arcavius Arms and the Man I Sing

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    We are all aware of the Russian Empire's status as the Third Rome, and thus of its succession into the Soviet Union. Today, the only state that has not abandoned Soviet Communism, either to the revisionism of the Chinese Communists or to Capitalism, is Cuba.

    Thus, Cuba is, by being the only remaining ideological successor to the Soviet Union, the rightful heir of Rome.

    Edit: The Roman people were descended from the Albans, i.e. the People of Alba. Thus, Scotland and by extension Great Britain are the rightful heirs, as is Albania.

    The Romans were also descended from the Trojans, who most scholars believe were Hittites. Thus, since the Armenians descended from the Hittites, Armenia is the heir of Rome.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018 at 8:34 AM
  12. Onerom Götterdämmerung

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    Sorry, but from what you have argued there can only be inferred that the Roman Emperorship is collective propietry of all the Spanish Empire's successor states, wethere they are in the New World, the Old, Africa or Asia. Each country shares 1/22th of the Empire's legitimacy (19 countries in Hispanic America plus Spain, Phillipines and Equatorial Guinea).
     
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  13. mad orc Well-Known Member

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    Tamil Nadu.

    Saint Thomas was an apostle of Jesus, he died in Tamil Nadu, he was a Roman citizen and Christianity later became the State religion of the Roman Empire, that and the British empire which is technically a successor of Roman Brittania gives us the legitimacy.
     
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  14. SpaceRome Well-Known Member

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    As per the edict of Caracalla, all free peoples in the empire became citizens in the 2nd century - including the Jews spread throughout it. now, while every other nationality has changed beyond Caracalla's imagination over the centuries (I.E their status must be reaffirmed by a roman authority), the jews have managed to preserve their language (first through religious texts, than as a completely revived language), religion and attitude towards foreigners through the millennia. in simple terms, there is a (strained) connection between the 5th century Jews and the modern Israelis, besides occupying the same territory, while such a connection does not exist anywhere else. thus, Israel is the only country in the world still able to claim its citizens as roman citizens, and so it is de-facto the roman empire.

    However, the renaming of the province to Syria Palaestina by Hadrian gives the Palestinians a claim as well (their existence was declared by a roman emperor), meaning the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has one more issue heaped on the pile.
     
  15. Fabius Maximus Unus qui nobis cunctando restituit rem

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    Check your facts, man -- the Britons are the heirs of the Trojans via Brutus of Troy, who slew the giants who previously inhabited the island and divided it up between himself and his brothers. Honestly, do you not remember anything Geoffrey of Monmouth taught you? ;)
     
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  16. Danifa94 Advocatus rei publicae

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    Well, I never say that Venezuela´s claim was exclusive: I said it was a most rightful and legal claim, not the most rightful and legal claim. Also, even if the rights were to be divided in "shares" as under your interpretation, not all shares will be equal. After all, some current Latin American countries declared independence as part of greater unions, today dissolved or more little. Any claim of the centroamerican republics will be weaker than Venezuela´s under that interpretation, because those countries are sharing the "share" of the USCA. The same happens with the claims of Uruguay, Paraguay, maybe Bolivia, and definitively Panama. While it is true that Venezuela was once part of a greater union (Gran Colombia) it declared independence from Spain before joining, so they had a "full" claim that they got back in 1830. In fact, is better than most because includes two "shares": The Province of Maracaibo (Modern State of Zulia) had their own declaration of Independence from Spain, which gives it a "share". It could be said that Cuba and Equatorial Guinea doesnt count, because by then, conditions were different: they were part of a reconstituted Spanish Nation, there wasnt any dissolution, sustitution and destruction of the different governments in Spain that forced them to keep their rights safe by exercising them in the same way as countries like Venezuela did, and there wasnt any upheaval, disorder or conquest in the Peninsula great enough to declare the Spanish Nation dissolved again. They got their rights as Independent and Sovereign States but they cant aspire to be heirs to something that isnt dead. The Dominican Republic definitively doesnt count, because they declared independence from HAITI, not Spain, and they asked to be part of the reconstituted Spanish Nation. Yes, it is true that later they declared independence for Spain too, but that only puts them in the same bag as Cuba and Equatorial Guinea. The Phillipines also doesnt count, because they were conquered as a "protectorate" by the United States and they got independence from them. (Yes, there is the First Filipino Republic´s declaration of Independence but as I said before, if Cuba doesnt count, that Declaration doesnt count either, for the same reasons). Puerto Rico´s "claim" is even worse, because it was conquered by the U.S and got "independence" from them. So, it doesnt matter the interpretation, the claim exist and is strong enough.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2018 at 8:38 AM
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  17. Albert.Nik Well-Known Member

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    Didn't Ceausescu try to make himself look like a Roman emperor?