manstein in africa

ive been reading "patton and rommel" men of war in the 20th century... it says while the germans where considering their options for putting a force into africa, manstein was one of the generals considred... he was one of the finest strategic commanders of the war... assuming rommel is interchanged with him to command the 56th panzer corps with army group north i pose the following questions

1. does manstein follow the german directives more closely in africa in the begining and just conduct a holding operation leaving more resources available to pour against the russians
2. does his strategic genius allow him to overcome the germans inherent weakness in africa and capture the suez canal
3 does rommel operating with more oversight in command in russia emphasize or hinder his gifts... does he allow army group north to capture leningrad and change the course of the campaign
4 or is it all a wash and are they men of similar talents anyway
 
I don't think Manstein would have been able to capture the Suez like Rommel, largely from the fact he would have been facing the same logistical problems. The largest reason for Rommel not getting any further than El Alamein is the fact that his supply lines ran close to 300 miles and very little supplies made it across from Italy as it was.
 
do you think he would follow his orders more closely and just conduct a holding operation and not overstretch his supplylines deep into egypt?
 

maverick

Banned
From a general overlook of the war, one could say that Rommel was bolder than von Manstein...I don't know if that's a good thing...

Perhaps Manstein lasts longer in Africa, perhaps it was Rommel's boldness and talent what kept North Africa going until mid 1943...I do know, from what I've heard, is that while Rommel was a tactical genius, he wasn't as good as a strategist (this might explain why he thought pulling a Napoleon and Conquering Egypt was a good idea)
 
in my opinion manstein would stay much more defensive than rommel in africa i dont know if this would help or hurt... rommel being bold and aggressive frequently surprised and overwhelmed the brits... i would think the campaign in russia would suffer... mainstein's command of 11th army and army group south later in the war would be sorely missed rommel i feel lacked the proper staff training to succeed above corps level command
 
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worse

The main reason Rommel was called the Desert Fox is that he grasped Desert Combat more than the British. He was more aggressive and he understood treated it in a similar fashion to Battles at Sea rather than defending empty territory.

Manstein was known for being more defensive. So chances are it would have been more of a stalemate. Unless he managed to lure the British into a false sense of security and drew them into a trap or ground them down.

Though the afformentioned logistical issues would have favored Rommel's bold strategies instead of waiting and watching supplies dwindle and the Brits to get bold.
 
although logistical problems stopped the africa corps from capturing the canal the germans did committ substantial numbers of aircraft and ground troops to the campaign... if manstein kept it to a holding action the army wouldnt have needed the fuel and other supplies they couldnt get foward into egypt anyway if he sits tight in tripolitania i could see the brits keep bashing their head against it... they did a minor version of this at el alemain that cost them 10000+ casualties when rommell was overextended if the germans where in a solid defensive mindset and not tremendously overextended the brits might not break through for a very very long time
 
Manstein was known for being more defensive. So chances are it would have been more of a stalemate. Unless he managed to lure the British into a false sense of security and drew them into a trap or ground them down.
Setting traps for his enemies was one of Manstein's most valuable techniques.
On the other hand, the loss of Manstein in the Eastern Front would be felt as well...
 
although logistical problems stopped the africa corps from capturing the canal the germans did committ substantial numbers of aircraft and ground troops to the campaign... if manstein kept it to a holding action the army wouldnt have needed the fuel and other supplies they couldnt get foward into egypt anyway if he sits tight in tripolitania i could see the brits keep bashing their head against it... they did a minor version of this at el alemain that cost them 10000+ casualties when rommell was overextended if the germans where in a solid defensive mindset and not tremendously overextended the brits might not break through for a very very long time

That is true, but remember as well if Manstein is holding in Libya Hitler is more likely to decide to send the troops to Russia where they can be used. Eventually the British would gain the upper hand through quantity, but like others have said, it would be later than in OTL. There is also the possibility that Montgomery might not even be placed in command of the 8th Army, since (im assuming) the British would not be facing the defeats that they dealt with when facing Rommel.
 
although logistical problems stopped the africa corps from capturing the canal the germans did committ substantial numbers of aircraft and ground troops to the campaign...
Hmmmm...
Logistics was not the only cause why the Germans did not manage to capture the canal.
In El Alamein they were clearly outnumbered and had lost air supremacy. Even with better logistics, I doubt that the Germans had the capability of winning El Alamein against the Allied forces, who were well prepared, fortified and waiting for them.
 
So, if Manstein is in Africa, where is Rommel located?
I would assume the same or close to the same position that Manstein help on the Eastern Front OTL, but would this have been the best place for him?
 
So, if Manstein is in Africa, where is Rommel located?
I would assume the same or close to the same position that Manstein help on the Eastern Front OTL, but would this have been the best place for him?
in the begining i traded him to be the leader of the 56th panzer corps with army group north.... i dont know if that would be right though. rommel was a great propoganda tool i would think maybe he would be rotated with schweppenbeg or something to command a corps with panzer group 2... his boldness would work well under guderian's command but again mansteins strategic genius would be sorely missed in 1942 and 1943... i figure rommel would maybe rise to command a panzer group with good results maybe up to the level of a hoth or raus
 
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