Mano a Mano! (Manstein in Africa book 4)
- Thread starter BlairWitch749
- Start date
Daffy Duck
Banned
Great update
Here-here...
Excellent update. Nice touch with the bulldozer Mark IV tanks...this will have quite an impact in the coming months of the war....I wonder how much supplies they Axis were able to seize.
Have a great weekend everyone!
Here-here...
Excellent update. Nice touch with the bulldozer Mark IV tanks...this will have quite an impact in the coming months of the war....I wonder how much supplies they Axis were able to seize.
Have a great weekend everyone!
Daffy Duck
Banned
Question
So what exactly are Schoerner's campaign objectives?
Will he strike east (over the White Sea) to Arkhangelsk?
Or, will he shift south, along the Murman railway, to put pressure on Leningrad (via Petrozavodsk)?
Going either way won't be easy going, in my opinion:
-Capturing or at least cutting off Arkhangelsk wouldn't be a bad choice, given that Lend-Lease supplies were coming through here during OTL. Harrasment by the Luftwaffe would indeed slow down the speed of supplies but now that Murmansk has been overun, Arkhangelsk will be the number 1 port for supplies into the northern USSR. Mining the harbor and bombing the railroad south might suffice. The Axis would have to use their navies to transport supplies and troops across the White Sea for a ground attack. This would be a risk...a big one at that..and even if they overran the port, where do they go, south to Vologda? This would make for extremely long supply lines. Would they risk this or...
-Heading south on the the Murman Railroad would be a good choice Though, it is a very long railroad, going through some pretty crappy terrain.. However, taking Petrozavodsk would isolate another major port on the White Sea AND open up a direct route to take the eastern shores of Lake Lagoda and put pressure on Leningrad.
So what exactly are Schoerner's campaign objectives?
Will he strike east (over the White Sea) to Arkhangelsk?
Or, will he shift south, along the Murman railway, to put pressure on Leningrad (via Petrozavodsk)?
Going either way won't be easy going, in my opinion:
-Capturing or at least cutting off Arkhangelsk wouldn't be a bad choice, given that Lend-Lease supplies were coming through here during OTL. Harrasment by the Luftwaffe would indeed slow down the speed of supplies but now that Murmansk has been overun, Arkhangelsk will be the number 1 port for supplies into the northern USSR. Mining the harbor and bombing the railroad south might suffice. The Axis would have to use their navies to transport supplies and troops across the White Sea for a ground attack. This would be a risk...a big one at that..and even if they overran the port, where do they go, south to Vologda? This would make for extremely long supply lines. Would they risk this or...
-Heading south on the the Murman Railroad would be a good choice Though, it is a very long railroad, going through some pretty crappy terrain.. However, taking Petrozavodsk would isolate another major port on the White Sea AND open up a direct route to take the eastern shores of Lake Lagoda and put pressure on Leningrad.
BlairWitch749
Banned
Manstein vs Buddeny round 2 (Chapter 24) The future battle on the ground will be preceded by battle in the air. This will determine which of the contestants has to suffer operational and tactical disadvantages and be forced throughout the battle into adoption compromise solutions - Erwin Rommel
Southern section of the eastern front July 1942
The Panzer Army Africa, the 1st Italian army and the Turkish army had been victorious in their initial spring battles, driving nearly all of Buddeny's Persian military district out of Persia proper. The front on July 2nd ran from the Turkish borders with the Soviet union, through northern Persia ending at the Caspian Sea at Astara. Ideally, as the genius of the desert thought, they should have been able to follow on Buddeny's heals and drive into the oil fields of Baku and points north, however the roughness of the terrain, the sheer distances involved, the exhaustion of forces, and the doggedness of Soviet rear guard troops had taken this option off the table.
the Genius of the desert had reached the Caucus mountains from the south
Manstein was forced to come up to this line and dig in whilst he reorganized his forces. His issues where several fold:
1. He needed to bring up the infrastructure of the Panzer Army Africa's Airforce in order to establish superiority over his new theater; plus his machines and pilots desperately needed rest and service after the difficult and hectic pace of operations in Iraq and lower Persia
2. He needed to service and reorganize his armored divisions which hadn't lost too heavily in the actual fighting against Buddeny BUT had worn themselves down over hundreds of miles of hard roadless marching. A great number of his tanks had to have their engines replaced at this time... no armored vehicle, no matter the quality could drive from Tripoli to the Caucuses without several substantial overhauls, and indeed the drive out of Iraq pushed many of Manstein and even more of Bastico's tanks into the service bay
manstein's panzer 4's still in their desert paint scheme needed major service prior to the next bound forward
3. The assault on the caucuses would be a different animal than his other campaigns, his troops where not configured for mountain assaults and he would require substantial artillery reinforcement to have any chance of cracking the mountain barriers. A detailed plan of attack with considerable stock piling of ammo had to be worked out
Manstein, Balck and Bastico along with several Turkish generals made visits to the front and several overflights to gauge the best way to press forward. The ASC assigned Baku, Grozny, Maikop and Stalingrad as primary objectives for Manstein's army group which stood over 40 divisions strong; but otherwise gave him a free hand in the conduct of the second stage of the campaign
Balck as commander of the German forces of the Panzer Army Africa tours the front
Buddeny was faced with different problems. He had settled on a solid defensive line and had tied in with other forces in the caucuses. The STAVKA was after him, telling the Vozd that he should relieved or promoted sideways after the disaster in Persia. However, Stalin's affection for Buddeny, and the credit he had built in Red Sands afforded him one more chance. However, Stalin was not without some punishment for failure, significant elements of Buddeny's staff where relieved and where replaced with hand picked STAVKA men. The message was clear, fuck up again and you are a dead man.
Buddeny did learn from his mistakes; at least to a degree. Aggressive bombing operations in the rear areas of the Panzer Army Africa where curtailed; whatever success the red air force enjoyed on these missions in other sectors wasn't to be had against Manstein, his pilots where too numerous and too experienced for those raids not to take prohibitive losses. Buddeny also reorganized his tank and cavalry corps and instilled harsher discipline on his junior officers... he made it a point to tell them that on the pain of death that they where not to get overzealous and continue to charge into unbreakable lines; nor where they to advance without artillery and infantry support being properly coordinated, and that any attack that didn't follow these new rules would result in a winter vacation to Sibera for all officers involved.
The Caucuses where home for Buddeny, he knew these mountains, he was born here. He fortified the passes and installed observation posts, howitzer and mortar platoons on the peaks whilst keeping his tanks and cavalry behind them in strong reserve groups backed by pre registered artillery should Manstein break through the passes; he also began a a process of installing wooden stakes in the valleys and in flatter areas between the mountains should the Germans make any attempts to use airborne troops to bypass his kill zones. The one place where Buddeny failed, was in his estimation of how long Manstein would need to reorganize his forces before they would be ready to attack; his staff said no earlier than July 19th, but on July 3rd Manstein received authorization to resume his advance...
to be continued...
thoughts?
Buddeny was given a chance to redeem himself after the disaster in Persia
A battalion of T-34's sits in reserve behind the Caucus mountains
The Panzer Army Africa, the 1st Italian army and the Turkish army had been victorious in their initial spring battles, driving nearly all of Buddeny's Persian military district out of Persia proper. The front on July 2nd ran from the Turkish borders with the Soviet union, through northern Persia ending at the Caspian Sea at Astara. Ideally, as the genius of the desert thought, they should have been able to follow on Buddeny's heals and drive into the oil fields of Baku and points north, however the roughness of the terrain, the sheer distances involved, the exhaustion of forces, and the doggedness of Soviet rear guard troops had taken this option off the table.
the Genius of the desert had reached the Caucus mountains from the south
Manstein was forced to come up to this line and dig in whilst he reorganized his forces. His issues where several fold:
1. He needed to bring up the infrastructure of the Panzer Army Africa's Airforce in order to establish superiority over his new theater; plus his machines and pilots desperately needed rest and service after the difficult and hectic pace of operations in Iraq and lower Persia
2. He needed to service and reorganize his armored divisions which hadn't lost too heavily in the actual fighting against Buddeny BUT had worn themselves down over hundreds of miles of hard roadless marching. A great number of his tanks had to have their engines replaced at this time... no armored vehicle, no matter the quality could drive from Tripoli to the Caucuses without several substantial overhauls, and indeed the drive out of Iraq pushed many of Manstein and even more of Bastico's tanks into the service bay
manstein's panzer 4's still in their desert paint scheme needed major service prior to the next bound forward
3. The assault on the caucuses would be a different animal than his other campaigns, his troops where not configured for mountain assaults and he would require substantial artillery reinforcement to have any chance of cracking the mountain barriers. A detailed plan of attack with considerable stock piling of ammo had to be worked out
Manstein, Balck and Bastico along with several Turkish generals made visits to the front and several overflights to gauge the best way to press forward. The ASC assigned Baku, Grozny, Maikop and Stalingrad as primary objectives for Manstein's army group which stood over 40 divisions strong; but otherwise gave him a free hand in the conduct of the second stage of the campaign
Balck as commander of the German forces of the Panzer Army Africa tours the front
Buddeny was faced with different problems. He had settled on a solid defensive line and had tied in with other forces in the caucuses. The STAVKA was after him, telling the Vozd that he should relieved or promoted sideways after the disaster in Persia. However, Stalin's affection for Buddeny, and the credit he had built in Red Sands afforded him one more chance. However, Stalin was not without some punishment for failure, significant elements of Buddeny's staff where relieved and where replaced with hand picked STAVKA men. The message was clear, fuck up again and you are a dead man.
Buddeny did learn from his mistakes; at least to a degree. Aggressive bombing operations in the rear areas of the Panzer Army Africa where curtailed; whatever success the red air force enjoyed on these missions in other sectors wasn't to be had against Manstein, his pilots where too numerous and too experienced for those raids not to take prohibitive losses. Buddeny also reorganized his tank and cavalry corps and instilled harsher discipline on his junior officers... he made it a point to tell them that on the pain of death that they where not to get overzealous and continue to charge into unbreakable lines; nor where they to advance without artillery and infantry support being properly coordinated, and that any attack that didn't follow these new rules would result in a winter vacation to Sibera for all officers involved.
The Caucuses where home for Buddeny, he knew these mountains, he was born here. He fortified the passes and installed observation posts, howitzer and mortar platoons on the peaks whilst keeping his tanks and cavalry behind them in strong reserve groups backed by pre registered artillery should Manstein break through the passes; he also began a a process of installing wooden stakes in the valleys and in flatter areas between the mountains should the Germans make any attempts to use airborne troops to bypass his kill zones. The one place where Buddeny failed, was in his estimation of how long Manstein would need to reorganize his forces before they would be ready to attack; his staff said no earlier than July 19th, but on July 3rd Manstein received authorization to resume his advance...
to be continued...
thoughts?
Buddeny was given a chance to redeem himself after the disaster in Persia
A battalion of T-34's sits in reserve behind the Caucus mountains
BlairWitch749
Banned
Manstein vs Buddeny Round 2 Part II (Chapter 25)You don't lead by hitting people over the head-that's assault, not leadership - Ike
Southern portion of the eastern front July 1942
Manstein's assault through the caucuses was hyper dependent on planning and intel, given the terrain advantages his opponents enjoyed. He, Bastico and Ali began a sustained campaign to destabilize the rear areas of the Soviet Caucus fronts.
Highly trained and motivated Turkish partisans slipped over the border to spread unrest amongst their kinsmen; many of whom where happy to spy or even conduct acts of sabotage against Russian forces in the area. The 4th seawolf company was also brought in, this unit consisted of Russian speakers who infiltrated Buddeny's lines all along the front, in strengths ranging from sniper/spotter to full squads. For weeks they traveled up and down the peaks and everywhere in between using darkness to their advantage. They attacked artillery observation posts, scouted enemy positions and made detailed maps so that the Panzer Army Africa could draw up highly effective artillery preparations
Seawolves head out into the Caucuses
These moves made Buddeny nervous especially as the Luftwaffe recon'ed his front far and wide with their cameras clicking industriously. He staged several small battalion sized spoiling type attacks, looking to disrupt Axis concentrations, secure prisoners, and secure intelligence so he could have every possible resource against Manstein. These where mostly ineffective as Manstein had installed fairly developed blocking positions built around large numbers of divisional anti tank guns during the lull.
Well concealed anti tank guns where critical to protecting Manstein's staging areas
In the end operation Kut was another Manstein deception. Turkish and Italian infantry divisions with penny packet platoons of tank and assault gun support would assault frontally against passes all along the front. Their attack was mostly smoke and mirrors, and not intended to go anywhere, the main work would be done by artillery and airpower which would attempt to smoke out artillery positions and to pin the Russians to their sectors.
The main effort would be right on the black sea near Batumi. The 90th light and the La Spieza infantry division would launch the main assault, with the armored and motorized divisions stacked up behind them. Turkish cavalry and 2 Germany motorized regiments would storm through the foothills adjacent to Batumi, leaving the peaks to be taken care of by airpower... they would be using a combination of halftracks (where possible) and Turkish caravan (camel) supply to feed their advance. Their objective to was to block the paths and routes of approach Buddeny might use to bring his other mountain garrisons to reinforce his men at Batumi. A single battalion of fallschrimjaegers would be dropped behind the city to block the main roads going back to Rostov to slow down reinforcement from the north until the Panzer Army Africa could break through to them.
Manstein's plan was that once Batumi was taken, he would send the armor on a headlong twin advance to destroy Buddeny. One prong lead by the Italian motorized forces backed by the 90th light would surge through the steppes and race for Stalingrad to block the Volga river; the other mainly consisting of German forces would drive east through Buddeny's vitals aiming for Astrikahn...Kut was intended to produce the mother of all encirclements
to be continued
thoughts?
Southern portion of the eastern front July 1942
Manstein's assault through the caucuses was hyper dependent on planning and intel, given the terrain advantages his opponents enjoyed. He, Bastico and Ali began a sustained campaign to destabilize the rear areas of the Soviet Caucus fronts.
Highly trained and motivated Turkish partisans slipped over the border to spread unrest amongst their kinsmen; many of whom where happy to spy or even conduct acts of sabotage against Russian forces in the area. The 4th seawolf company was also brought in, this unit consisted of Russian speakers who infiltrated Buddeny's lines all along the front, in strengths ranging from sniper/spotter to full squads. For weeks they traveled up and down the peaks and everywhere in between using darkness to their advantage. They attacked artillery observation posts, scouted enemy positions and made detailed maps so that the Panzer Army Africa could draw up highly effective artillery preparations
Seawolves head out into the Caucuses
These moves made Buddeny nervous especially as the Luftwaffe recon'ed his front far and wide with their cameras clicking industriously. He staged several small battalion sized spoiling type attacks, looking to disrupt Axis concentrations, secure prisoners, and secure intelligence so he could have every possible resource against Manstein. These where mostly ineffective as Manstein had installed fairly developed blocking positions built around large numbers of divisional anti tank guns during the lull.
Well concealed anti tank guns where critical to protecting Manstein's staging areas
In the end operation Kut was another Manstein deception. Turkish and Italian infantry divisions with penny packet platoons of tank and assault gun support would assault frontally against passes all along the front. Their attack was mostly smoke and mirrors, and not intended to go anywhere, the main work would be done by artillery and airpower which would attempt to smoke out artillery positions and to pin the Russians to their sectors.
The main effort would be right on the black sea near Batumi. The 90th light and the La Spieza infantry division would launch the main assault, with the armored and motorized divisions stacked up behind them. Turkish cavalry and 2 Germany motorized regiments would storm through the foothills adjacent to Batumi, leaving the peaks to be taken care of by airpower... they would be using a combination of halftracks (where possible) and Turkish caravan (camel) supply to feed their advance. Their objective to was to block the paths and routes of approach Buddeny might use to bring his other mountain garrisons to reinforce his men at Batumi. A single battalion of fallschrimjaegers would be dropped behind the city to block the main roads going back to Rostov to slow down reinforcement from the north until the Panzer Army Africa could break through to them.
Manstein's plan was that once Batumi was taken, he would send the armor on a headlong twin advance to destroy Buddeny. One prong lead by the Italian motorized forces backed by the 90th light would surge through the steppes and race for Stalingrad to block the Volga river; the other mainly consisting of German forces would drive east through Buddeny's vitals aiming for Astrikahn...Kut was intended to produce the mother of all encirclements
to be continued
thoughts?
For this to work, I'm hunching on the assumption that Budenny fails to turn Stalingrad into the OTL fiasco for the Germans.
really good update I am loving the fact that the Soviets are being attacked from all fronts, really makes things more interesting
I gotta believe they'd be heading toward Baku. If it falls then the Soviets are almost completely dependent on US aid for oil. And with the fall of Persia, that means everything would have to go through Vladivostok and the long trek across Siberia.
To say nothing of the boon for the Nazi war machine. If they capture it even partially in tact anyways.
HarryH
Banned
They will still have oil in Central Asia and the Trans-Volga but it isnt likely to be anywhere near enough.
With Murmansk, Perisia and the Maritime Province in Axis hands the Americans will be hard pressed to supply the Soviets.
uess
Ouch. I think you just told us who won here. If Baku falls or gets bombed, the Soviets won't have enough oil to keep their tanks and planes in supply.
Guess the fact that they attacked does changes the morality of things a bit. And I had forgotten the Japanese were attacking in the Far East. Not sure about them maintaining pretty much a three front war for any length of time though.
I forgot that as well. Ah, those long, detailed timelines...
Anyway, I think the Japanese don't have to do that much: hold the line, destroy/occupy Wladiwostok deny the russians other ports on the pacific. No need to march through Siberia.