Manhattan Commune

I'm currently reading The Difference Engine, a steampunk alt-history taking place in 1855. I've also been playing Victoria: Empire Under the Sun. Both of them feature a Victorian-era "Manhattan Commune" (in the latter, it only pops up if there's a major rebellion in New York, or the owner decides to release it as a satellite state). Now, the Manhattan Commune seems a pretty far-fetched idea, so I was shocked to see it in two places around the same time. It's possible it was included in Victoria as a tribute to The Difference Engine, but that seems unlikely; TDE is almost two decades old, and is certainly not a major book or anything.

So, anyway, it made me interested. Does anyone know of any other TL or story that includes an independence New York City, Communist or not?
 
and is certainly not a major book or anything.
You don't think it was at least partially responsible for creating Steampunk?

It was written at the height of William Gibson and Bruce Sterling's careers. The two people most commonly credited/held responsible for creating Cyberpunk. They had major cult influence at the time.
 
Secession was proposed during the civil war in order to maintain trade with the southern states. Have you seen The Gangs of New York? It's a really good movie about the rebellion that occured against the federal government during the civil war.
 
You don't think it was at least partially responsible for creating Steampunk?

It was written at the height of William Gibson and Bruce Sterling's careers. The two people most commonly credited/held responsible for creating Cyberpunk. They had major cult influence at the time.
I guess it depends on your definition of "major". It popularized a genre but it isn't Moby-Dick or War and Peace.
 
True, but what are 'major' books these days? Barack Obama's published electioneering? Celebrity autobiographies?
 
That Twilight idiocy, Harry Potter and Angels and Demons/The Da Vinci Code, I suspect.

IIRC one of the Victoria devs posted a while back that the Manhattan Commune was a nod to the book.
 
True, but what are 'major' books these days? Barack Obama's published electioneering? Celebrity autobiographies?
Well to tell what works are significant enough to stand the test of time and enter the collected canon of mankind they have to actually stand the test of time so we won't know for some time. It was nearly a thousand years before Beowulf was recognized as a literary work of art. For all we know it could take as long with our age's great works.
 
You don't think it was at least partially responsible for creating Steampunk?

It was written at the height of William Gibson and Bruce Sterling's careers. The two people most commonly credited/held responsible for creating Cyberpunk. They had major cult influence at the time.
I guess it depends on your definition of "major". It popularized a genre but it isn't Moby-Dick or War and Peace.
That's basically what I was thinking. I've heard very few discussions about it, compared to, for example, Harry Potter or Twilight. Part of that is due to time (TDE is old, whereas the others are relatively recent), but there are other books from the early 90s that are mentioned a lot more often or are better known.

Wanda, you said your self it had "cult influence." That, by definition, means it was outside the mainstream. I'm not denying the influence it had in certain circles, it's just surprising that a Swedish video game company made a reference to it a decade and a half later, especially since it doesn't seem like a major part of the book (at least not at the beginning).




Anyway, my original question has been ignored! :mad: Any other TLs/books/games/whatever with an independent NYC and a post-ARW POD??
 
Well I suppose for me then the cult is the mainstream.

As for the original question... Hm. Crimson Skies?
Nah, that's an independent entire New York State.


Come to think of it, there's probably more fiction stories with a Free City of Las Vegas than there are with an independent NYC.
 
'tis so. It encompasses most of the US eastern coast. But I think that's a bit too wacky Future History for the OP...
 
'tis so. It encompasses most of the US eastern coast. But I think that's a bit too wacky Future History for the OP...
Indeed. Independent New York City with a POD after the ARW is a bit ASBish, so I didn't expect to find much on it. But at least I tried. :(
 
Indeed. Independent New York City with a POD after the ARW is a bit ASBish, so I didn't expect to find much on it. But at least I tried. :(
did you look at Fernando Wood? He actually proposed independence during the civil war. The draft riots that followed could also lead to a POD. I am not sure what the POD could be, but independence of New York during the Civil War might lead to a future Communist Revolution.
 
did you look at Fernando Wood? He actually proposed independence during the civil war. The draft riots that followed could also lead to a POD. I am not sure what the POD could be, but independence of New York during the Civil War might lead to a future Communist Revolution.
Eh. I'm familiar with The Free Republic of Tri-Insula (I think that's the name, anyway... ;)). I just don't think he could really pull it off, even in a successful South TL.
 
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