Mama Mia.... A Venitian Doge on the Roman throne!!!

I am sorry I was not clear.
Nothing wrong with having good relations with Byzantium, you do not have to murder one for that (at least not at this point of time).
The Council of Ten would have him murdered by morning because he would have too much power.
Tha facts that he had a huge reputation and was loved by the people would be two additional reasons to have him dead.
It was not the Doge the one ruling the city, but the oligarchy. They would do anything (and did a lot of very nasty things) to prevents the rise of a one-man-power.
That's what happened to a lot of other men in his position in Venice when they were becomeng too powerful


Yes I know.... Who said anything about no assasination attempt. ;)
 
I am sorry I was not clear.
Nothing wrong with having good relations with Byzantium, you do not have to murder one for that (at least not at this point of time).
The Council of Ten would have him murdered by morning because he would have too much power.
Tha facts that he had a huge reputation and was loved by the people would be two additional reasons to have him dead.
It was not the Doge the one ruling the city, but the oligarchy. They would do anything (and did a lot of very nasty things) to prevents the rise of a one-man-power.
That's what happened to a lot of other men in his position in Venice when they were becomeng too powerful

The Council of Ten plus a time machine, since it was established in 1310 :p
 
Veneroma
June 15th 1995
univ. Of Konst.



proffessor lysandros saw the students file in. They had a lot to cover and he sighed. The bell rung and class started.

" Good morning students, as you know i will be collecting your essays so just pass them into the bin at my desk. Soon the students filed out and turned in their essays. ' very good now today we shall be talking about the civil war but first we ,ust talk about another serious event that was taking place. As you know the romans at this time controlled most of Scily and Naples, however the normans under Robert Guiscard led a rebbelion. Does anyone know who Robert is."

A kid raised his hand

' Yes Alaxandros.'
' Wasnt he the Norman who conquered most of roman scily before being killed at Palmero by Alexius kommenos the general of Scily, considered by many the Fox of italy for his stunning victory at Palmero against Robert Guiscard and the brilliant counterattack that retok Scily for the romans.' Alexius Kommenos The fox of Italy.






' excellent, however we will go into more detail today. Now Robert Guiscard had led the normans to victory against the Romans and siezed most of Naples. All that stood in his way was Palmero. However Palmero was under the control of Alexius kommenos who had a garrison of 7000 troops. is enemy had an army of close to 12000. So Alexius soon thiought up a brilliant plan, he would first have his archers pepper the Scilians as they marched to palmero. Then he would use a stunning tactic. Alexius decided to split Guiscards force so he sent decys and gave false Info to guiscard.'

Robert Guiscard
'so ladies and gentlemen the What Alexius did next was brilliant. His troops peppered the scilian army thus weakeaning them greatly. Next he split up two forces of 1000 soldiers whoom he sent on opposite sides. guiscard was surprised at the so few men he heard about and so split up his forces. however this was a fatal mistake. As guiscard and hisforce of 4000 walked on the fields before Palmer. alexius and his army of 5000 led a complete a,bush. guiscard was completly caught off gaurd and the Scilians were overwelmed. soon guiscard himself lay dead. now what about the other armies well the Romans used a tactic known as scorcheed arth where they completly burned all towns villages and surrounding. With the horrendous terrain and harsh climate these troops were worn down and soon Alexius and his army picked them of. Well ladies and gentlemen we will learn more about the man causes for the norman failure o take scily but now we shall start onthe civil war.'

" Today we shall watch a documentory on how the civil war played out in its opening stages."

1075
Caesaria

Konstantios Doukas vyed hungrily for the throne and its splendour. He knew if it did not belong to him he would kill himself. He was a very lustful man and most of ll a womanizer, yet he had support as he knew. He smiled to himself. suddenly he heard a knock and the door opened. in walked a turk by the name of Mustafa." so my master has heard of your propostion. i hope you hae the 10000 gold coins.' konstantinos smiled
" Of course I do, but I need you army.' Mustafa laughed
" As long as you keep your promise of giving us free reign in Mesopatamia and Armenia you will be having under your control an army of 10000 turkish warriors.' Konstantinios grinned
"Really now that is indeed a lot of troops. Very well you have a deal, make me emperor and i shall give you your money.' the two grinned.


Durazzo
1075
Nikephoros paced back and forth in his palace at durazzo, he knew he only had a group of 6000 soldiers and he knew he need help desperatly. So he did the unthinkable, the hungarans by this time were growing in power and a deal was struck beetween the two. in this deal the Hungarians would send in their mercinaries to help Nikephoros become emperor.

Michael Doukas was recognized as the true emperor in Constantinple and had the hearts of the Greek people as well as the anatolian coast, so three seperate entities werre carved up in the Empire The themes of farther anatolia, bulgaria to durazzo, and of ours the anatolian coast and greece.


The Bell rung. " Well class we have run out of time however tommorow we will finish the civil war.
 
I think Theodora's succession to the Imperial dignity should be handled with more care. Perhaps her nephews coming to share the throne for some time, ie, the eldest and the middle one, and then they enter into conflict, eldest puts the middle one to death and raises up the youngest, then youngest gets rid of eldest, or eldest gets rid of youngest, and he dies, leaving no heirs or young heirs or w/e, and Theodora is elevated to the Imperial dignity. Or perhaps a child of Theodora is elevated to the dignity, or made caesar by one of her nephews (who has no heirs of his own), but both nephew and child die prematurely, leaving Theodora as the only viable candidate for the purple. In which case the Doge would either become Emperor also, or at least something like Caesar or Princeps, I don't think a concept of prince consort existed in the Byzantine empire or would ever really be accepted; male consorts tended to take over and establish themselves as head of government, or alternatively be disposed of.
 
expecially since from charlemagne, a certain Frankish custom (Salic law) has been seen as most as something connaturated with the nature of the Imperium in the west.
And even if Venice had strong links with Byzantium, most of its italian would-be-subjects would have raised rubble about it
 
I think Theodora's succession to the Imperial dignity should be handled with more care. Perhaps her nephews coming to share the throne for some time, ie, the eldest and the middle one, and then they enter into conflict, eldest puts the middle one to death and raises up the youngest, then youngest gets rid of eldest, or eldest gets rid of youngest, and he dies, leaving no heirs or young heirs or w/e, and Theodora is elevated to the Imperial dignity. Or perhaps a child of Theodora is elevated to the dignity, or made caesar by one of her nephews (who has no heirs of his own), but both nephew and child die prematurely, leaving Theodora as the only viable candidate for the purple. In which case the Doge would either become Emperor also, or at least something like Caesar or Princeps, I don't think a concept of prince consort existed in the Byzantine empire or would ever really be accepted; male consorts tended to take over and establish themselves as head of government, or alternatively be disposed of.
Well you see I see no problem at Teodora reamaing empress, after all in OTL did not Zoe rule Byzantium, it proves that woman could have ruled as emperors, plus you are forgetting one fact. Venice was not influenced by the west. It is influenced by Byzantium. The so called Salic law of the west does not apply to Venice because unlike most of Italy the Franks never occupied it, but instead it spent most of its years looking toward the east SO I agree Salic law would have forbid it but the only Western influence Vemice got was Roman catholicism due to its close proximity with the Pope, otherwise one can say Venice was more of an eastern power than a western one and tus it managed to survive while its brethren kin Italy fell into chaos at the dispersion of the Frankish empire. So in this TL Teodora is empress but remember her husband is the Doge. So in reality the DOge has much influence over how Teodora rules, in the eyes of the ROman populace they only see Tedora as the reigning Minarch but in reality the newly appointed Caesaer is the one in real power. Due to this he Veneto- ROman ond grows even stronger.:cool:
 
Well you see I see no problem at Teodora reamaing empress, after all in OTL did not Zoe rule Byzantium, it proves that woman could have ruled as emperors, plus you are forgetting one fact. Venice was not influenced by the west. It is influenced by Byzantium. The so called Salic law of the west does not apply to Venice because unlike most of Italy the Franks never occupied it, but instead it spent most of its years looking toward the east SO I agree Salic law would have forbid it but the only Western influence Vemice got was Roman catholicism due to its close proximity with the Pope, otherwise one can say Venice was more of an eastern power than a western one and tus it managed to survive while its brethren kin Italy fell into chaos at the dispersion of the Frankish empire. So in this TL Teodora is empress but remember her husband is the Doge. So in reality the DOge has much influence over how Teodora rules, in the eyes of the ROman populace they only see Tedora as the reigning Minarch but in reality the newly appointed Caesaer is the one in real power. Due to this he Veneto- ROman ond grows even stronger.:cool:

Pope. Church.
Crowning and legitimity by means of an investiture by Rome's bishop. (I admit by a piece of trickery, but from 800AD and on all accepted that).
Salic law was fully backed by them, and the Pontiff was eager to reaffirm that it was him the head of the church (and thus the one having the right to tell other how to live), not an half-arian greek sitting somewhere east or an half-pagan barbarian burping somewhere north.
Pater Regum, Rector Mundi, Vicarius Christi
 
Last edited:
Pope. Church.
Crowning and legitimity by means of an investiture by Rome's bishop. (I admit by a piece of trickery, but from 800AD and on all accepted that).
Salic law was fully backed by them, and the Pontiff was eager to reaffirm that it was him the head of the church (and thus the one having the right to tell other how to live), not an half-arian greek sitting somewhere east or an half-pagan barbarian burping somewhere north.
Pater Regum, Rector Mundi, Vicarius Christi[/QUOTE}
So the ROmans dont care about the pope. The ERE have their patriarch. As long as he accepts then Teodora is empress, however In Venice the other leaders of Venitian society know that in reality Venice controls the Roman empire. SHe is a puppet of the Venetians. So you see the Venetians stand to make a large profit of $$$$ In this deal and since the Venetians were mainly merchants and depended on trade they would gladly accept Teodora as a puppet empress while they made huge profits and outcompeted their Italian rival known as Genoa.
 
Anyway guys I am really busy right now doing research so the tl will come in one day however I have a treat, here is the map of the factions:)
This is the outlook of the byzantine empire during the start of the civil war. the three factions are shown.
Tell me what you guys think;)

Unitnto;ed 2.png
 
Alright guys here is an update.

Veneroma
Constantinople



Proffessor Lysandros began the third day's lesson on The rise of Veneroma.

" Ladies and gentlemen today we get to talk about the civil war. Now this war was a major war fought in the Roman empire.
Now as you know the three chief instigators were Constantine's sons.
These three fools turned the empire into a hellhole. For 5 years war and devastation ravaged the empire.

So we historians can split up the battle into three phases. The Initial incursion of Nikephoros and the Hungarians with an incursion into the balknans. The second phase dealing with Michael and his ounterattack.The third phase dealing with the Invasion of Konstantinios and the arabs, 4th phase Michael and Niekphoros retake of Anatolia from Konstantinios, 5th phase is the sudden death of Michael, 6th phase is the fall of Andronicos, while the 7th deals with the assasination of Konstantinios, finnaly the 8th phase deals with Teodora's assention to the Roman throne. Today we will talk about the first phase also known as the Magyar Invasion mainly due to the fact that King Geza I was the main benefactor of Nikephoros who unwittingly became a Hungarian puppet.
King Geza I of Hungary



On January of 1076 Geza and a group of 8000 hungarians coupled with Nikephoros and his army Invaded the balkans. The main general of the Byzantine defense of the balkans was left to a resourceful man named
Petrislav Vojislavljević

He was Byzantine strategios of Serbia. Petrislav found out of the secret plans going on beetween Geza and Nikephoros and immediatly fled to COnstantinople to warn Michael. Michael also understood the danger and put in charge Petrislav as commander of the balkan forces still loyal to the crown. He would be the cheif architect in the counterattack that occured during the second phase. Arguably Michael is said to have acted brilliantly throughout the war given his circumstances.
Petrislav realized tat Nikephoros and the Magyars would launch their strike at Macedonia, if they could cut off Macedonia then Greece would be cut off from Thrace thus leading to defeat. Petrislav acted accordingly, under his command the Byzantine forces amassed en masse across Macedonia wher Petrislav ordered a series of forts to be built. Soon soldiers used civilian labour of the area to build fortresses that dotted Macedonia. Nikephoros was ill prepare for the assault.
v5.png
Hungarian peaseants readying for the assault.



The Hungarian calvary was arguably one of the best calvaries in Europe. Nikephoros decided to use this to his advantage. Now Geza I and Nikephros became very close friends of each other. correspondence shows them to be best of pals. Yet the two put on a brilliant show in the balkans.

A medieval tet explains one battle that gives historians a clear outlook of how the first pphase began. The siege of the fort Heraclum. Heraclum was a fort built in eastern macedon and a powerful defensive fortification.
carc.jpg
Herclum was a powerful fortress as can be seen from this picture and a fromidable defense. This is a detailed textual account of the battle that took place for this fort.

Document by Atislav Slavic Historian of 11th century.
" As can be seen I was a townsmen at Herclum. Our fortress was huge if one must know and many found it formidable. Yet the enemy was a terrifing lot. The battle started at daybreak, the Roman defenders stared grimly out at the massive army that faced them."
Before we continue here is a diagram of the enemy positions
Medieval-Siege.jpg


as you can see the Hungarians executed a typical siege

" The enemy was vast we heard, our garrison of 5000 stared at the large 8000 strong enemy. Then the siege began. Catapaults launched stones and debree at th castle walls. At first panic ensued but our soldiers stood ground. Many building were demolished ut our generlal Vatislavius ordered the catapaults to fire debree back at the enemy. Soon both sdes exchanged blows. For days a stalemate ensued, the wwalls held strong but the catapaults relentlessly assaulte dit day and night. FInnaly the Hungarians tried launching ladders, scores of soldiers carrying ladders ran up to the fort. Our archers shot down many but we all knew it was futile. The various catapault damage had broken the morale of the defenders yet Vatislavius stood and shouted bravely. The ROmans regianed morale and sooon unleashe doil down on the enmy. Pots of boiling oil were heated up and then dropped on the enemy. It was an incredible sight, many soldiers burned to death. However the battering rs arrived and soon the walls were breached. I saw as our defenders bravely held out with madness as they fought to the end. However the Hungarians had one superior force of calvary and as soon as the gates were open the fort was invaded. We fought for our llives but the fort was pillaged and looted. Many lost their lives."
As you can see Many atrocities were commited by Nikephoros and the Magyars. SUddenly the bell rang. Lysandros grinned " Well class tommorow we will finish up the first phase of the civil war.




What do you guys think:cool:
 
Anyway fellow AH commers i plan to revive this tl. Plz give it anoter chance, I have seen how horrible the punctuation is in this tl so I promise that from next update onwards I promise to make it readeable with no punctuation mistake. Finnally I also agree that Teodora cannot be a true empress, thus in reality she is like Zoe a figurehead, with Roman nobility running the real affairs of constantinople. So plz give this tl another chance.


Update in a few hours....

Btw srry for the long hiatus....
 
Here is a small preview of what is to come;)
Veneroma
Constantinople

Lysandros began the next day with the class. However one student raised his hand, his name was Manlute Attianos. Manlute asked, “teacher how was it that Teodora became empress, if the Venetian doge Dominco had gained too much power wouldn’t he have been killed by the council of ten.” Lysandros smiled
“Well normally such would be the case, I will just say one thing, I will tell you more when we get to that unit. Dominco Selvo was almost assassinated, however at the last moment a servant of the doge saved Dominco. Dominco enraged appealed to the Venetian populace saying that this council of ten was against him; they almost murdered him and were planning to limit trading rights. In fact he blatantly lied and spread false info such as these people practiced Sodomy, were evil monsters who planned to take absolute power, and because Selvo was a brilliant speaker most of the populace believed him. Dominco then, banished the members with the support of the populace, and put his own favorites into the office positions thus effectively the council of ten. HE also bribed many influential families to give him support.” Manlute was stunned, then…could you tell me how did Teodora rule with power,” Lysandros grinned
“Who said she ruled, Dominco knew that Venetians were hated by the nobility, so he bribed many of the noble families, also after the civil war most of the Roman nobility was in fear of losing to the Turks, once they were bribed by Dominco he promised them that they would rule and so Teodora becomes a puppet, poor Teodora knows this but she can do nothing about it. Why you honestly didn’t believe a woman at this period could hold power did you.” Manlute shook his head.
“Excellent than let me continue on with the discussion.”
 
The thread and the story are very interesting, keep it up.;)

Personally, i will choose 1204 as the best opportunity for Venice to get Costantinople: in the fourth crusade, Enrico Dandolo was a step to become Emperor of Latin Empire, but refused ( because he was old, blind, and proud to be Doge of Venice). But instead if he accepted, he could merged the title of Doge and Latin Emperor in one role, so...

Probably, Nicea with a Venetian Republic more involved in Greece will fail to rebuild the ERE.... and the Ottomans will never invaded the Balkans.
 
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