Malê Rising

The Imperials digged a big hole for themselves, however they won’t fall without a bang : when you see what happened in South Africa or Namibia during the period, I wouldn’t be surprised if there are several million dead by the end of the war (counting death by famine ect) with atrocious things committed by both sides (look at the Algerian war, which took place under a more democratic regime, was quite dirty with torture and population exchange).
Africa is heading for interesting times : I wonder what is happening in the copperbelt, its riches must make it a desirable thing for the imperials. Happy to hear about West Africa its diversity is truly amazing. I certainly hope the region will be able to make that a richness rather than excuse for war in the future.
How is China looking at this? Is it in any position to gain something in the war?
 
I wonder what is happening in the copperbelt, its riches must make it a desirable thing for the imperials.

On the other hand, I am fairly sure that, whatever knack for shooting themsleves in the foot they may have, the Imperials still harbor little desire to add the German Empire to the pileup of their enemies.
 
Helped Nazi Germany out of some financial crises, too.

Bruce

Granted, that was actually the example I had in mind. The Nazi voter didn't vote the Nazis into power on a plain "let's plunder the shit out of Poland, Russia and everyone else who stands in the way to fix the Depression". I mean, the point was pretty much there, but it required a massive convoluted mess of a racial superstructural babble to be presented effectively.
 
Chandrapur District, Central Provinces
November 1919

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The sunlight spilled through the tent flap, illuminating the rows of shelters outside and the children playing on the dusty ground. Inside, two women were bent over a third, kneeling with a gathering pool of blood, trying to force her heart to keep beating and her lungs to breathe. One of them lifted her hands to make another chest compression, then listened again for a heartbeat and let them fall in despair.

“She’s dead. Gone.”

The other drew back and hung her head in agreement. “She was weak, Narsa-ji, and it was a hard birth. At least we saved the child.”

“Yes. At least that.” Across the tent, the baby, held by another woman and wrapped in dirty blankets, chimed in with a cry. “We’ll have to find a nursing mother for him.”

“Asha can nurse him. She has a little one, and she’s healthy.”

“Take her, then,” said the one called Narsa-ji. Unlike the others, she was an Englishwoman, and her name was Sarah Child. “I’ll clean up.” She bent wearily to pick up a rag and began doing so.

“I don’t think she’s got family,” she murmured, arranging the folds of the dead woman’s sari. “Have to organize a funeral. Another one.”

There had been so many. The food in the camp was bad and there wasn’t enough of it; that combined with close quarters meant disease, and the medical staff here consisted of anyone with training who’d been rounded up and thrown in. With the dengue season just past, it was a little better, but… there’d been eleven thousand people in this camp when Sarah had been brought there, and six thousand who’d come in the nine months since, and she’d counted twenty-one hundred funerals. Ten a day, fifteen, and that didn’t count the babies – of three children born here, one might live a year. They didn't want to kill people here, but they mostly did damn-all to keep them from dying.

She straightened and rose to her feet, clutching the rag she’d used to clean the blood and birth-fluid. There would be a place outside to burn it. She walked through the flap and out onto the dusty street, filled with people slumped in front of their shelters and the steam rising from where the women cooked their meager rations. There was a smell of rice and dhal, fighting with the reek of the cesspits and open sewers.

A few people called to Sarah as she made her way toward the fires. They knew her here: as one Englishwoman among fifteen thousand Indians, she was a hard one to miss. She remembered the lieutenant’s outrage at finding a white woman running a Congress field hospital; she’d been quite prepared to tell him what a troublemaker she was in her own right, if that was what it took for her to go where her nurses went, but she hadn’t needed to at all.

She’d suffered for being British a time or two; there were plenty who felt as that lieutenant had. But she also had a strange sort of immunity: some of the soldiers had shame, and even to those who didn’t, she was still an Englishwoman. Sometimes she could arrange to get letters out, or medicines in… she did what she could, along with the other nurses and the camp women they’d trained. She was one of those annoying Abacar women now, and she had a standard to meet.

The central fire loomed in front of her, a place where those without fuel might come to cook or to sit and talk. She cast the rag into its depths; as she did, a warm breeze touched her cheek, and she felt curiously as if Usman were caressing it, or as if Richard were, long ago in Dorset. She damned herself for a silly old woman, but then stopped short: memories of love were important in such a place as this. That was why the people here still prayed and sang, and why they came to the fire to share stories.

“Narsa-ji!” It was Shalini, the woman who’d helped with the birth. “I gave the baby to Asha, and he’s nursing. Did you leave Rajashri alone?”

“Only for a minute. Come back with me, and we’ll wrap her.”

She turned back toward the hospital-tent. “They brought two villages in today,” Shalini said as she followed. “Asha saw them come in – from up by Nagpur.”

Sarah nodded. If she were a general, she could track the fighting by the villages that were rounded up – it was the districts where guerrilla fighters struck that got concentrated. Closer to the front, they’d lock up the men and drive the women and children across the lines – let the Congress figure out how to feed them. Here, where that wasn’t practical, they took everyone.

“She heard some of the soldiers talking too. Six hundred more people, but the food will be the same. They can’t spare any more.”

Of course not. Take the farmers off the fields, and you won’t have a bloody harvest. There were a hundred other camps like this one, maybe more, and most of the people in them had been taken off the land. And with the fighting going on, rice shipments didn't always get through, and there were other priorities for the ones that did.

She stopped for a moment, and looked south past the fences, toward the Hyderabad border thirty miles away. Once, forty years ago in the great famine, she’d stood before the Nizam’s throne and shamed the regent into feeding the hungry. Maybe I can do it again.

“Sarah? Are you all right?”

She shook her head clear. “It’s nothing. I’m fine. But later, after we wrap Rajashri for the pyre, I’ll need your help.”

*******

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The camp was a prison, but people and things went in and out every day: guards, supplies, the people who volunteered for work crews to earn a few annas. Night-soil, too, and no one looked at a night-soil cart very carefully, not this far from the front and not with the soldiers so bored of routine. Shalini had done her work well, and nobody had seen Sarah crawl under the cart and brace herself as best she could among the struts. Her arms and legs burned with the effort of holding on, but she felt the cart stop by the gate, and heard the soldiers and the driver bantering in a way that was almost companionable, and then felt it move again. From the way the shadows played on the ground, she could see that the lights of the camp were receding, and finally the cart crested a hill and they were gone.

She could hold on no longer, and she dropped to the ground painfully, rolling aside just in time to avoid the wheels. The driver didn’t look back. Maybe Shalini had told him about the extra cargo he was carrying. Maybe he didn’t notice, or else he didn’t care. She waited anyway, ten minutes, twenty, until she was sure the cart was out of sight and the insects were the only thing she could hear. She found the north star, and went the opposite way.

Dawn saw her at the edge of a deserted village, having made five miles across broken ground. She was exhausted and she crawled into one of the huts, hoping she would be forgiven for the trespass. The walls closed around her and she slept.

She woke when the sun was high. It was hot, even in November, and the still air inside the house was a furnace. She was hungry and thirsty; she had the remains of yesterday’s bread, and she found an earthen pot to get water from the well. It was enough – barely, but enough.

She gathered herself and resumed the march south, putting one foot in front of the other as the village receded in the distance. Hours later she was shadowed in the setting sun, looking for all the world like a bent old woman of seventy-seven because that was what she was, still following the track to Hyderabad.
 
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If you're referring to the USSR, I'm pretty sure the majority of the ruling elite were engineers, not social scientists...

I think you are thinking of the later USSR and China today: most of the Old Bolsheviks didn't have enough practical technological and scientific knowledge between them to make up one Jules Verne hero. Genuine engineers and scientists with practical ideas tended to get shot if they were in positions to make political decisions.

Bruce
 
I think you are thinking of the later USSR and China today: most of the Old Bolsheviks didn't have enough practical technological and scientific knowledge between them to make up one Jules Verne hero. Genuine engineers and scientists with practical ideas tended to get shot if they were in positions to make political decisions.

Bruce

Yeah- the Gulag Archipelago has long sections explaining how the engineers lost control over state projects and were extensively purged.
 
I'd generally agree the explicit ideological part of hegemony was probably not important within the colonies. But the implicit way the Empire worked was as important. Changes for the better (such as improved infrastructure) were clearly visible, whereas changes for the worse (such as increased economic dependence on British finished goods) were only visible in the longer view across decades and generations. It also helped that since subjects were not from democratic nations, there was effectively little difference between replacing the old boss with a new one.

Fair enough, although the colonized people will eventually want for themselves what the imperial power has, including control of their destinies. It's rarely possible to find a comfortable equilibrium and stay there, which was what many colonial powers, including Britain in India, tried and failed to do.

The Nasranis (as Flocc has explained on the forum) acted as a de facto caste within India, and frowned upon outside converts. Indeed, even today IOTL when people approach them about conversion, people are steered towards the evangelist churches in the region. ITTL I'd expect the Catholic Church to play a large role, and convert many untouchables in the South.

This is quite possible, for the reasons you say, and I wonder whether there might also be an opening for evangelical churches that are entirely new to India - on the one hand, it will take them a while to pick up the cultural cues, but on the other, they can claim to represent something new and revolutionary that will help the Dalits smash the caste system rather than simply withdrawing from it.

I'm guessing that the Dalits will go many different ways - there will be Muslim conversions in the north, Catholic conversions in the south, Buddhist conversions throughout India, and also an upsurge of reform within Hinduism in response to the new order.

As an aside to Jonathan, how are the Rehoboth Basters relating to the "Pan-Afrikaans" identity which is forming? They're some distance away from Namaland even, meaning it will be some time (if ever) before they can integrate into South Africa, but they seem a natural fit.

They've been mentioned a couple of times - they have their autonomous Free Republic of Rehoboth under loose German sovereignty. They might well be drawn to an inclusive vision of the Afrikaner nation such as Smuts is proposing, and could want to join the South African union depending on how that union deals with its internal conflicts, but it will probably be some time before this is politically possible.

Thinking about the latest update regarding Trinidad, which has a large Indian population, makes me wonder about how Guyana and Mauritius are faring. Since both have big Indian populations (Mauritius majority), there will be strong sympathies with the Indian cause.

In turn, this makes me think about the non-trivial Muslim population in T&T, Guyana, and Dutch Surinam (where the local Javanese population probably developed some interesting ideas after Indonesia's successful movement for greater autonomy). They all seem a logical place for the various Muslim-flavored social justice arguments to filter into the Caribbean and ultimately perhaps Latin America.

Hmmm, hadn't thought about Mauritius. In Trinidad and Guyana, the British can rely to some extent on conflicts between the Indian and black populations to keep control, especially if as in Trinidad, the local authorities are willing to meet the people halfway. Mauritius, though, has a pretty commanding Indian majority, and by this time they'd make up a good deal of the professional and business class. A lot of the whites are French, too, so they might not be so eager to sacrifice themselves for the empire.

I suppose that what happens in Mauritius depends on its strategic importance - if Britain needs it as a naval station, they'll step down hard, otherwise the governor might be able to get away with pragmatic measures similar to what's happening in Trinidad. I'll have to set a scene there in 1920 or so.

And yes, Muslims are prominent in the labor movement in T&T and Guyana, and most likely in Surinam too (where there will be both Indians and Javanese), and there will be plenty of cross-fertilization between them and the Hindu and Christian nationalists.

Edit: One other thought. Despite the epic fail of the Imperial party, I think empires in general will be thought of more warmly ITTL. We know that France will successfully keep integrated some of its colonies, and it looks likely the Ottoman Empire will survive as well. Hence the Impies screwing the pooch will be far more painful for the British, since the loss of empire seems more a historic accident than the result of the inevitable rise of the nation-state.

People will certainly think of it that way at first - many continental Europeans will believe that the Indian war has no lessons for them, because they'd never screw up their empires the way the Imperial Party did. It won't always work, though, and the other empires' internal contradictions will also catch up with them to a greater or lesser extent. Eventually the Indian revolution will be seen as proof that colonies can't be held indefinitely against their will, and the surviving empires will do so by shedding the territories that don't want to stay. The Ottomans have done that a couple of times already.

The Imperials digged a big hole for themselves, however they won’t fall without a bang : when you see what happened in South Africa or Namibia during the period, I wouldn’t be surprised if there are several million dead by the end of the war (counting death by famine ect) with atrocious things committed by both sides (look at the Algerian war, which took place under a more democratic regime, was quite dirty with torture and population exchange).

Unfortunately, when a colonial war is fought in a country as big as India, a death toll in the millions is entirely possible, and as can be seen from the most recent update, there's less and less regard for the rules over time.

Africa is heading for interesting times : I wonder what is happening in the copperbelt, its riches must make it a desirable thing for the imperials. Happy to hear about West Africa its diversity is truly amazing. I certainly hope the region will be able to make that a richness rather than excuse for war in the future.

As Falecius says, any British attempt to seize the Copperbelt would mean war with Germany, which is possibly the only power with the industrial capacity to build a navy that matches Britain's. And yes, things will get better in West Africa and throughout the empire as they get to the mid-1920s.

How is China looking at this? Is it in any position to gain something in the war?

China has conflicts of its own, and it's got the Himalayas between it and India, but it might hope to gain commercial or diplomatic influence after the war ends.

[Plunder] helped Nazi Germany out of some financial crises, too.

Granted, that was actually the example I had in mind. The Nazi voter didn't vote the Nazis into power on a plain "let's plunder the shit out of Poland, Russia and everyone else who stands in the way to fix the Depression". I mean, the point was pretty much there, but it required a massive convoluted mess of a racial superstructural babble to be presented effectively.

It worked for a bit, but as you well know, it is no method for continued economic success.

well, yeah, because you have to keep expanding...

Plunder's a Ponzi scheme, yes, although it's amazing how many nations thought they could keep it going, just like it's amazing how many people fall for Ponzi schemes. I suspect there's a willing suspension of disbelief involved in both cases.

There are degrees of plunder, though, and if you exploit another country at a level short of destruction, you can often keep it up for quite a while. That was pretty much Leopold II's business model in the Congo - "short of destruction" covers a lot of territory. It was also, to use a far less extreme example, the model for the Dutch East Indies, and that worked for centuries.

The Imperials' mistake was thinking that this playbook can still work (and it never did work as well in TTL as in OTL) and in overestimating the amount that can be squeezed from the colonies without regime-threatening unrest.

In any event, to get back to the cultural question, the Imperials did wrap their program in high-flown rhetoric for the consumption of their more refined domestic audiences - "we paid for the empire in blood and treasure, we built railroads and schools for the colonies, and now it's time for them to pay us back for the benefits they received." This was combined with grandiose statements about the British destiny as the imperial nation, and for the less refined audiences, suggestions of how much easier their lives would be if India paid a third of their bills.

So the British are implementing concentration camps?

As in the Boer War of OTL, and for similar reasons. They aren't death camps, mind - they're detention camps aimed at foreclosing guerrilla activity, and the British don't want the Indians in them to die, but as with the Boer War camps, poor food and close quarters will take their toll.

The next update will take the British Empire to 1920: the middle stages of the Indian war, the dominions' reaction, and the beginning of the end.
 
Why do I get the feeling that any independent Indian Republic isn't going to be the most stable of places? :rolleyes:;):p

I hope that post-Imperial party Britain will have learnt a valuable lesson from this vile period in history.
 
I suppose that what happens in Mauritius depends on its strategic importance - if Britain needs it as a naval station, they'll step down hard, otherwise the governor might be able to get away with pragmatic measures similar to what's happening in Trinidad. I'll have to set a scene there in 1920 or so.

And yes, Muslims are prominent in the labor movement in T&T and Guyana, and most likely in Surinam too (where there will be both Indians and Javanese), and there will be plenty of cross-fertilization between them and the Hindu and Christian nationalists.

Is there anything happening in French Guyana and the Antilles, they could get funny ideas, especially if the socialist couldn't keep some promises. And there is still the question of Cuba and Puerto Rico that I don't remember being solved.

As Falecius says, any British attempt to seize the Copperbelt would mean war with Germany, which is possibly the only power with the industrial capacity to build a navy that matches Britain's. And yes, things will get better in West Africa and throughout the empire as they get to the mid-1920s.

Sorry I saw the British territory going more to the north, into the copperbelt. Is there any significant South African immigration to their north to escape the troubles? The Afrikaner identity will be very different ITTL, if it can be more in peace with itself, it will be for the better.

China has conflicts of its own, and it's got the Himalayas between it and India, but it might hope to gain commercial or diplomatic influence after the war ends.

I meant more of something like an increased influence in Tonkin and the Shan states than a real intervention in India. The Himalaya is not a good place to wage war.
 
Why do I get the feeling that any independent Indian Republic isn't going to be the most stable of places? :rolleyes:;):p

It will certainly have its internal divisions - there will be religious, caste and class conflicts, regionalism, and issues with Adivasis, just as in OTL. The most explosive religious conflict of OTL has been muted, though, and the revolution will go some way toward welding the country together (as the Great War did before). It doesn't have to be any less stable than OTL India, although what instability there is might play out in different ways.

Is there anything happening in French Guyana and the Antilles, they could get funny ideas, especially if the socialist couldn't keep some promises. And there is still the question of Cuba and Puerto Rico that I don't remember being solved.

French Guiana is somewhat of a backwater as in OTL; Guadeloupe and Martinique are integral French departments that are fairly well connected to metropolitan France through education and increasingly tourism. There's probably an Aimé Césaire or two getting ready to join the French literary-political scene. There are class conflicts, though, that could feed into nationalist movements if the socialists don't keep their promises or if the islands are left behind in terms of development.

Cuba and Puerto Rico are self-governing dominions of Spain, and have managed to stay out of most of the troubles of the 1910s, so many Spanish liberals are living in Havana for the time being.

Is there any significant South African immigration to their north to escape the troubles? The Afrikaner identity will be very different ITTL, if it can be more in peace with itself, it will be for the better.

Most of the South Africans who move are going to more peaceful parts of the South African union, although a few have gone north to the German and Portuguese colonies. And Afrikaner identity will certainly be different - the term is already starting to mean all Afrikaans-speakers, both the whites and the mixed-race people descended from them.

I meant more of something like an increased influence in Tonkin and the Shan states than a real intervention in India. The Himalaya is not a good place to wage war.

I hadn't thought of that. Yes, China might certainly make a try for the Shan state given the power vacuum in Burma; maybe the Panthays would play some part in that.
 
I'm really curious to see what will happen to India.

By the way, Jonathan, I was thinking of Stalin: will we see him ITTL? Or maybe an ATL sibling?
 
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I am despairing of ever catching up to this timeline, so I figured I'd post my praise here: of all the timelines on this website, this is the one that I would recommend to my friends and family even if they had no interest whatsoever in alternate history. It's a credit to your skill as a writer (though our Africa connections are also a factor).
 
By the way, Jonathan, I was thinking of Stalin: will we see him ITTL? Or maybe an ATL sibling?

IIRC Jonathan has said that Stalin's father went to Russian Eritrea as a colonist. So if Stalin's ATL sibling makes an appreance, expect him to show up near the Horn of Africa.
 
I was thinking about Britain's potential outcomes of the Imperial Crisis that will be happening in East Africa. I'd say that a big issue for the Impies will be Nyasaland, OTL currently known as Malawi. This is a British crown colony in Africa, completely separated from any other British holding save for a shared river shore with a complicated feudal mix of sovereignty prevailing throughout it. If the Zanzibari branch of the Omani Empire gets geared against the British, Nyasaland will be invaded. The British have no way to intervene, unless they bring Portugal in. This may happen out of colonial interests; Portugal can gain choice bits of the Zanzibari network for suppressing their rebellion[1]. This may be done pretty savagely, and it won't look pretty throughout Southern Africa. Portugal's going to be taking a step firmly into "I wish this was the 1850s!" camp, maybe in accordance with Britain's policies. Don't they have a protectorate where a small tribe of Boers live as a clan within a large local tribe? I could definitely imagine why Portugal would want to squash a group that would inevitably be drawn towards a union with a larger Afrikaner federation. This could actually bring Portugal into conflict with the Afrikaner states within the Federation and potentially with Germany, but I don't think a war on that scale would happen. Call it an ATL within an ATL!

Mentioning Germany made me wonder about their "colonies in strange places". I'm wondering what happened ITTL to New Guinea, and to Madagascar. That one's going to be important to post-war Germany. It's big, it's populous, it's got a bunch of important resources, it's strategically located to protect German interests in the Indian Ocean. All reasons why France wanted it before Germany took it, and until longer IOTL. What with Germany's post-war labor crisis, I can't help but wonder if Malagasy fishermen would be interested in helping to keep Germany's merchant marine afloat. This could take them to some strange places, possibly even as an ethnic diaspora. German speaking Malagasy people is an interesting butterfly.

What's happening in Samoa? It was held IOTL by Germany for 20 years, which is a sizable chunk. According to B Munro's map, it's British, which means it was always British. The Impies will not go easy on them, oh no.

On the Pacific, what's happening ITTL to the Solomon Islands and to the Solomon islanders? IOTL they were under German rule until 1920.

And the Marianas IOTL were sold to Germany by Spain in 1899. What happens to them ITTL?
 
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