Malta: the island in rebellion

All,

I am getting a bit obsessed with the Med in the 1939-42 time frame - I know, sorry.

This is something I am not sure about, can't find anything really.

What If the Maltese have enough of the bombings and the killings of their civilians?

What If they decide it is not their war?

What If they ask the British to go home and leave them alone?

What If Germany (for once) would stick to their word and leave Malta alone if the British have gone home?

Now what?

Will the British start killing and imprison the population? how many were there anyway? vs British troops that is?

How likely is it to happen? were the Maltese unilaterally happy about being killed? nobody objected?

Another twist in the tail?

Ivan
 
That might not stop anything if the population decides it does not want to be a part of it anymore.

PS: I have been to Malta. They are indeed very proud of their history as a general notion, but that does not mean that everybody was behind the British?

Ivan
 

Saphroneth

Banned
That might not stop anything if the population decides it does not want to be a part of it anymore.

PS: I have been to Malta. They are indeed very proud of their history as a general notion, but that does not mean that everybody was behind the British?

Ivan
All the evidence seems to suggest that the Maltese were entirely happy with the situation, or at least tolerant of it.
Funny thing about being bombed, it tends to make you feel angry at the people dropping the bombs. Especially when their avowed aim is to annex you into their country, a country you're not all that interested in being part of. (i.e. Italy.)

For some idea of the level of bombardment where people start to panic, you really have to look at the Western Allies and their Combined Bomber Offensive in 1944-5.
 
It is funny one.

There may not have been a 100% backing of "Britain, go home", but if there is a sufficient high percentage (10%? 20% ? 40%?) calling for a change, Britain will have to react. Malta is too strategic at that point in time.

What is the tipping point in this? Where Britain will resort to reprisals and arrests which might just lead to a change of allegiance?

Malta received a fair share of bombing, btw.

Ivan
 

Saphroneth

Banned
It is funny one.

There may not have been a 100% backing of "Britain, go home", but if there is a sufficient high percentage (10%? 20% ? 40%?) calling for a change, Britain will have to react. Malta is too strategic at that point in time.

What is the tipping point in this? Where Britain will resort to reprisals and arrests which might just lead to a change of allegiance?

Malta received a fair share of bombing, btw.

Ivan
Given that historically Malta voluntarily made itself a protectorate of the UK, and the UK leaving was not popular OTL, then you'd need to show a lot of evidence that there was any kind of movement to become independent or get Britain to leave.
I mean, obviously if Kent wanted to sit out the war then things would have to be done, but it's such an unusual situation that evidence is really needed.

The main source of Maltese discontent was actually the idea they weren't being defended enough during 1940! So if the British don't bother to defend Malta, then the Maltese get angry... but if the British do then the Maltese are fine and won't revolt.

And yes I know Malta received a fair share of bombing. I'm talking about the kind of bombing of the Combined Bomber Offensive, by a bomber fleet that could lift twenty kilotons of conventional bombs in one go.
 
And yes I know Malta received a fair share of bombing. I'm talking about the kind of bombing of the Combined Bomber Offensive, by a bomber fleet that could lift twenty kilotons of conventional bombs in one go.

That's an important point. Bomber Command and the USAAF were dropping huge tonnages on Germany day and night, but it doesn't seem to have even come close to breaking the will of the population. Whatever can be thrown at Malta will only be a fraction of the positive torrent of high explosives that was raining down on Germany, and I'm not willing to say that the Maltese people would be noticeably less stubborn in the face of it than the Germans or British were.
 
All,

I am getting a bit obsessed with the Med in the 1939-42 time frame - I know, sorry.

This is something I am not sure about, can't find anything really.

What If the Maltese have enough of the bombings and the killings of their civilians?

What If they decide it is not their war?

What If they ask the British to go home and leave them alone?

What If Germany (for once) would stick to their word and leave Malta alone if the British have gone home?

Now what?

Will the British start killing and imprison the population? how many were there anyway? vs British troops that is?

How likely is it to happen? were the Maltese unilaterally happy about being killed? nobody objected?

Another twist in the tail?

Ivan

I'm by no means an expert on Maltese history, but IIRC the island did have a pro-Italian faction in the 1930s.

Malta had strong economic links with Italy before the war for things like its food supply. Republic Street was formely the Kingsway and in the 1930s it had the Italian name Strada Rjali.

It would requre a POD before 1939 but perhaps the Italians could have done more to encourage the pro-Italian faction of Maltese for the civil population to revolt in June 1940. I'm not saying it it likely, but it is possible.

I haven't checked for the exact figures, but IIRC Malta had a civil population of about 300,000 in June 1940. At that time the British garrison was: an infantry brigade, plus coast artillery, a few dozen AA guns, engineers and administrative troops; the Maltese Army consistead of at least one infantry battalion, plus coast artillery and support troops; and finally whatever personnel the RAF and RN had on the island. Whether that is enough to put down a rebellion by the entire population I don't know, but if the Italians attempted a Coup de Main at the same time the Garrison might be too busy fighting the Maltese to fight the Italians.

IIRC in the middle of 1940 the British did consider abandoning Malta as it was thought to be too difficult to defend. Therefore if enough of the Maltese population were pro-Italian or at least anti-British then then that might clinch the argument in favour of abandoning the island.
 
Well, there certainly was a strong pro-Italian Party in the 30s and they did actually win a majority in the 1932 Elections to the colonial legislature (an action which resulted in Parliament being suspended by a British government concerned about the potential of losing the island).

However the flip side of this is that despite the fact that Britain had qiute literally removed a popularly elected parliament for being too pro-Italian, as soon as Italy declared war on Britain public support for the party pretty much collapsed. They managed to stay larger than their splinter groups through till 1947 (having not contested the 1945 elections), but even there the Labour Party (running on a platform of 'Integration or Independence', where really the reason the former didn't happen was because London wasn't interested more than anything else) won 60% of the vote.
 
Well, there certainly was a strong pro-Italian Party in the 30s and they did actually win a majority in the 1932 Elections to the colonial legislature (an action which resulted in Parliament being suspended by a British government concerned about the potential of losing the island).

However the flip side of this is that despite the fact that Britain had qiute literally removed a popularly elected parliament for being too pro-Italian, as soon as Italy declared war on Britain public support for the party pretty much collapsed. They managed to stay larger than their splinter groups through till 1947 (having not contested the 1945 elections), but even there the Labour Party (running on a platform of 'Integration or Independence', where really the reason the former didn't happen was because London wasn't interested more than anything else) won 60% of the vote.

Yes, the collapse of support for Italy is why the Strada Rjal was renamed the Kingsway.

60% of those that voted, but not 60% of the Maltese electorate and not enough to be legally binding. Therefore the vote had to be approved by the Maltese Parliament, which also voted yes, but once again the majority was not large enough to amend the Maltese constitution.
 
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assume a neutral Italy.

British use Malta as base to intercept war materials and/or attack Tunisia with the clandestine German forces then reinforced and a bombing campaign beginning.

plausible a majority or plurality would like to be part of Italy (in some arrangement)
 
assume a neutral Italy.

British use Malta as base to intercept war materials and/or attack Tunisia with the clandestine German forces then reinforced and a bombing campaign beginning.

plausible a majority or plurality would like to be part of Italy (in some arrangement)
If Italy stays neutral, why is Vichy France jumping for the Axis and allowing bombers and Germans in its North African colonies?
 
Yes, the collapse of support for Italy is why the Strada Rjal was renamed the Kingsway.

60% of those that voted, but not 60% of the Maltese electorate and not enough to be legally binding. Therefore the vote had to be approved by the Maltese Parliament, which also voted yes, but once again the majority was not large enough to amend the Maltese constitution.

I was referring to the 1947 Election where it was 60% of the population who voted for Labour on a 75% turnout. You're thinking of the 1956 Referendum which was a 77% integration vote on a 59.1% turnout. I do think that it would have succeeded had Britain actually shown an interest in integrating colonies a la France, but even before Suez the loss of India had led to a general view of 'ignore them unless there's large scale independence moves.
 
I was referring to the 1947 Election where it was 60% of the population who voted for Labour on a 75% turnout. You're thinking of the 1956 Referendum which was a 77% integration vote on a 59.1% turnout. I do think that it would have succeeded had Britain actually shown an interest in integrating colonies a la France, but even before Suez the loss of India had led to a general view of 'ignore them unless there's large scale independence moves.

Yes, I was referring to the referendum, sorry.
 
assume a neutral Italy.

British use Malta as base to intercept war materials and/or attack Tunisia with the clandestine German forces then reinforced and a bombing campaign beginning.

plausible a majority or plurality would like to be part of Italy (in some arrangement)

If Italy stays neutral, why is Vichy France jumping for the Axis and allowing bombers and Germans in its North African colonies?

why wouldn't they strike the same type of agreement mooted IOTL? (which allowed for use of bases at Dakar, Bizerte, and Aleppo)

of course the British attacked Vichy colonies a couple of times and absent Italian invasion of Egypt that probably would have increased.

back to OP, the use of Malta as base to attack and/or blockade Tunisia.
 
So there was dissent.

The bombing of Malta (as far as I know) was concentrated on military targets because of one simple reason: The use of Ju-87 and Ju-88 made it possible. Why bomb somebody's house if there is a good fat target sitting in the harbour.

True that a lot of other things also got hit, but it was not area bombing as over Germany. The German dive bombers offered the accuracy required for pin-point attacks.

If more bombing of civilian targets had happened, would it have got the resolve to waver a bit? As pointed out, even the area bombing of Germany did not do that anyway. And Maltese and Germans are probably not very different.

It leads to another question: If the Maltese can perceive themselves out of the conflict ("It is the British people's war"), then there is no reason for them to endure hardship?

Then the anger over near-starvation would be directed at the British, not the Axis.

I think I read somewhere that there were near-riots over food allocations. Anybody confirming this?

It also leads to another question: If an invasion had been attempted, how welcome would the Italians and Germans be?

In essence: Could Italy/Germany have induced some sort of rebellion?

Ivan
 
Look at the Maltese national flag...

...They are still very proud of being 'the George Cross Island'.

Anything done during the war will have to reflect this stubborn unwillingness to give in, which goes all the way back to the Ottoman Siege of Malta.
 
It seems like an interesting idea, but I would think, as others have said, that you would need an earlier POD than WW2.

One idea that has come to mind recently is an early Allied seizure of Lampedusa or Pantelleria - say in 1941 or 42. It would seem highly unlikely and also a bit of a hard to hold dead end but the psychological impact on Italy could be interesting. Actual Italian territory as opposed to colonial lands and all that.
 
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