Malaysia/Indonesia Union

[Mirza Khan]

Malaysia and Indonesia have what is, from my understanding, basically the same official language, same religion, and, in general, very similar cultures. The fact that they're two different countries today derives from the fact that Malaysia consists of former British colonies and Indonesia of former Dutch colonies.

So the challenge: with a POD after 1900, have Malaysia (+Singapore) and Indonesia form one big Malay union, at or shortly after independence.

 

[lycan]

Maybe they'll grow closer as a result of a longer Japanese occupation than OTL.

 

[MarshalBraginsky]

The Japanese made plans for a Mahamalaya during WWII, but never carried it out. Even so, the Konfrontasi is the vital key to achieving this. Or if the Netherlands and Britain can negotiate for a potential union of their Malay territories in exchange for neutrality during the Cold War, that could work. All three modern Malay nations are practically on the same side as the West, but the only difference is that Indonesia also had good relations with the Soviet bloc.

 

[Kishan]

Three members of ASEAN, namely Indonesia, Malaysia and Brunei have same majority religion, Islam and a common major language, Malay. Though Indonesia have other languages too, Bahasa Indonesia,their lingua franca, is very similar to Bahasa Malay of Malaysia. The cultures of the three countries are also very similar, though in Indonesia, there are local diversities as in Bali. But Malaysia has large minorities of Chinese and Indian peoples. Singapore also lies between Malaysia and Indonesia, but is dominated by people of Chinese origin. Singapore has people of Malay and Indian origin as minorities.
It was the historical fact that the Malayan Peninsula and the Indonesian Archipelago were under two colonial powers, the British and the Dutch that led to the formation of two different countries. Had they been under one colonial power, the result could have been their attainment of independence as one country.
I think that this subject is a favorite one in the AH Board and has appeared many times. Please look into the threads, "Indo-Malayan Federation" started by anw-rev on 3-6-2012,12.30 PM, "South East Asian Union Forming" started by der Vogel on 3-7-2012,3.54 P.M, and "An Indonesian-Malaysian Union?" started by Sciscisciortino on 29-8-2012,1.08 P.M.

 

[Flocculencio]

Malaysia and Indonesia have what is, from my understanding, basically the same official language, same religion, and, in general, very similar cultures. The fact that they're two different countries today derives from the fact that Malaysia consists of former British colonies and Indonesia of former Dutch colonies.

So the challenge: with a POD after 1900, have Malaysia (+Singapore) and Indonesia form one big Malay union, at or shortly after independence.

The thing is they went through very different colonial experiences and have very different nationalist ideologies.

The Indonesian independence struggle was violent and focused on uniting the various peoples of Indonesia under Javan leadership. Malaysian independence was forged by British educated elites and focused on safeguarding Malay rights in the face of a very large Chinese majority and focussing on Islam as a unifying Malay identity. Anti Chinese sentiment was, of course, a policy of many Indonesian governments but they didn't have quite the same concept of a Malay nation because of the presence of much more varied and numerous Malay cultures in Indonesia as well as the more prominent role of non-Islamic religions in Indonesia.

Constitutionally, in Malaysia a Malay must be a Muslim or he ceases to be recognised as a Malay (not that conversions from Islam are recognised by the Malay government) and conversely if an Indian or Chinese is Muslim (or converts to Islam- the colloquial term for converting to Islam in Malaysia is actually "masuk Melayu", literally "becoming Malay"), speaks Malay and is willing to assimilate into the Malay community their children can be recognised as Malay, with the rights and benefits thereof. In Indonesian nationalism, religion plays a much smaller role and there are plenty of Hindu-Buddhist and Christian Malays.

 

[Ridwan Asher]

The Indonesian independence struggle was violent and focused on uniting the various peoples of Indonesia under Javan leadership.

This isn't exactly the case. Indonesian nationalist movement was definitely not Java-exclusive. Resistance towards the return of Dutch rule was fairly universal, where localities took arms and operated independently without much coordination from the center, and this was a reflection of the universalist nature of Indonesian nationalist ideology. This however, in turn, created a state of effective warlordism throughout the country, which provided a hole for intervention from outside actors. Javanese domination was only cemented only after PRRI/Permesta rebellion, and while it has since been the de facto state of affairs, has never been the core principle of Indonesian nationalism the way the whole Bumiputera Muslim supremacy has been for Malaysia. Technically, you can be non-Javanese and president, but the electorate demographic and the elite establishment will stand on your way.

 

[Ridwan Asher]

For the OP : post 1900 PoD just won't do it. British occupation remaining after the Napoleonic Wars would be the last chance to create a unified Greater East Indies/Nusantara polity.

 

[King Helü of Wu]

Invasion of Malaysia by Indonesia as a result of an escalated Konfrontasi, or an Indonesian intervention is Malayan communist insurgency (both in favour of the communist by Soekarno or against the communists by Soeharto.)

But if such a union is really forged by force, it wouldn't turnout to be nice for the people of Malaysia.

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How about a second British conquest of Java? Political circumstances forced the Dutch Kingdom to stand on Axis side, with the King leaning to the Germans and Dutch East Indies working for Japan. And then the Brits single-handedly liberated both Indonesia and Malaysia, putting the two nations under its rule for at least two decades.

 

[Simon]

For the OP : post 1900 PoD just won't do it. British occupation remaining after the Napoleonic Wars would be the last chance to create a unified Greater East Indies/Nusantara polity.

Since you seem to be somewhat knowledgeable about the country/region hopefully you can answer a query of mine. A fair while back, longer than I really want to think about really, I was reading a book about Indonesia and I vaguely remember it talking about the British taking over the running of the place during the Napoleonic wars and their administration/reforms they instituted, apparently to the extent that the locals would have preferred them to stay on rather than the Dutch return since whilst not great were still better. Done some online searching since then but never really turned anything up so was just wondering about the accuracy of the claim.

 

[NickBana]

The Japanese made plans for a Mahamalaya during WWII, but never carried it out. Even so, the Konfrontasi is the vital key to achieving this. Or if the Netherlands and Britain can negotiate for a potential union of their Malay territories in exchange for neutrality during the Cold War, that could work. All three modern Malay nations are practically on the same side as the West, but the only difference is that Indonesia also had good relations with the Soviet bloc.

It's Melayu Raya. It was planned by Dr. Burhanuddin al-Helmy(citation needed) and Malayan Nationalist Party (PKMM- Parti Kebangsaan Melayu Malaya; not similar to KMT) with the Japanese...

 

[user200]

Since you seem to be somewhat knowledgeable about the country/region hopefully you can answer a query of mine. A fair while back, longer than I really want to think about really, I was reading a book about Indonesia and I vaguely remember it talking about the British taking over the running of the place during the Napoleonic wars and their administration/reforms they instituted, apparently to the extent that the locals would have preferred them to stay on rather than the Dutch return since whilst not great were still better. Done some online searching since then but never really turned anything up so was just wondering about the accuracy of the claim.

The British ruled Indonesia for a while during the Napoleonic Wars. You can try searching for "The Kew Letters" (or "Surat-surat Kew" if you can read Indonesian and/or Malay)
Not sure about whether or not the locals preferred British rule over Dutch rule though...

 

[orangnumpanglewat]

The British ruled Java during the Napoleonic wars, plus parts of Sumatera. Present day Indonesia only came under Ducth rule around 1920, 1912 if you don't include Papua. The major motivation for control of the East Indies is the loss of Belgium, after the Napoleonic Wars. The boundaries of British and Dutch spheres of influence in the Indies are laid down in the Anglo-Dutch treaty of 1824, before that the islands were free-for-all.

Indonesian nationalism is a unique thing. It started in the 1928 Indonesian Youth Congress, where it replaced Javanese, Sumatran, etc. nationalism, which were also unique as they island, and not race based. This lead to an educated elite advocating an independent Indonesia. Japanese occupation, in turn, turned these people into leaders, they used Japanese propaganda to spread the idea of nationalism to even the most illiterate peasants, while in turn the Japanese used these to send the people into forced labor. Some Japanese are truly sympathetic, however. One of them is Rear Admiral Tadashi Maeda, who funded Soekarno and Hatta's political trip all around Indonesia.

One place to start is the BPUPKI meetings during the final stages of WW2, BPUPKI was a committee set up by the Japanese, with a Japanese leader, tasked on planning Indonesian independence under Japan. Mohammad Yamin, lawyer slash poet, proposed that Malaya, Northern Borneo, and East Timor are also to be part of Indonesia. Support for it was limited however. If there were support for it, then maybe Indonesians would try to incorporate Malaysia.

We can also make Malaysia a less desireable nation for Malays. Prevent the ketuanan Melayu for example, and make the British ignore the Malay protests on immigration laws. The Chinese would start taking their jobs in the civil service. Perhaps then, support for a union with Indonesia might take off.

 

[Flocculencio]

This isn't exactly the case. Indonesian nationalist movement was definitely not Java-exclusive. Resistance towards the return of Dutch rule was fairly universal, where localities took arms and operated independently without much coordination from the center, and this was a reflection of the universalist nature of Indonesian nationalist ideology. This however, in turn, created a state of effective warlordism throughout the country, which provided a hole for intervention from outside actors. Javanese domination was only cemented only after PRRI/Permesta rebellion, and while it has since been the de facto state of affairs, has never been the core principle of Indonesian nationalism the way the whole Bumiputera Muslim supremacy has been for Malaysia. Technically, you can be non-Javanese and president, but the electorate demographic and the elite establishment will stand on your way.

Fair enough- I think my points about the specific racial and religious nature of Malay nationalism still stand though.