Malaya What If
- Thread starter Fatboy Coxy
- Start date
Ah, memories of primary school!
Yan, tyan, tethera, methera, pimp, sethera, lethera....
That's because the strategy changed to bypassing strong Japanese positions whenever possible. Most of the Japanese army in the South Seas was left to "Rot on the vine". The Australian effort was fully tied in with the Americans. Most of the aircraft, landing craft, warships, and logistical support was American, and MacArthur directed strategy. The Australians weren't off on their own having "Fun" with the Japanese.
New Guinea was a backwater for the Americans, the front door for the Australians, and a major theater for the Japanese Army. In late 1942-1944 it was the major focus of IJA strategy, with far more being put into it than Burma, only China had more troops devoted to active military operations there. Most of the IJAAF was committed to the theater, and thousands of aircraft were lost there.
Australia was increasingly sidelined by Washington. Washington did not want to share the victory table with anyone. After the ANZAC declaration, Washington was aware that the two Pacific Dominions were not going to fall into line and do as they were told. Hence the Australians were sent to the islands, out of the way places which they the US had already bypassed. Canberra was forced to accept a secondary role as a consequence. Macarthur wasn't interested in using the Australians, any more than Washington was. New Guinea was to him a route to the Philippines, nothing more. It wasn't important to the USN. To the Japanese, it was a place from which they could threaten Australia. It was a savage, remote place. As to who was or wasn't committed to the theatre is ultimately immaterial. They died there. Simple as that. The Japanese lied to themselves that they could make a go of conquering the place. America told itself lies as well. Australia was under no illusions. It was a tough, hard place to live, let alone fight in.
Just what were the ANZAC's being told to do that they didn't want to do? Basically, it was agreed they wouldn't fight north of the equator. The liberation of the Philippines, and the final drives against Japan were American concerns. Australia was a country with a small population that had already made outsized contributions to the war effort. Some of the operations they engaged in during the last few months of the war were really unnecessary.
I don't understand your point about what everyone committed to New Guinea is immaterial. Each sides level of commitment is what gave the battles there its strategic significance. As with any island it was very difficult to defend without sea, and air control. The Japanese made such a major effort to hold it because it commanded the southern approaches to the Southern Resources Area. That made it vital to Japan's defensive strategy, and a critical factor in the war in the pacific.
It was committed to see the war through. Personally, I think they should have just packed up their gear and stayed at home, once they had freed their own territory and told the Poms and the Yanks where they could put their colonies where the sun did not shine. However, we don't and cannot shirk our duties as easily as other countries can. Once we partake in an alliance, we stick with it and make it work, more fool us.
What you are misunderstanding is how each combatant viewed New Guinea. To Australia it was important because it was the doorway to northern Australia and a part of the Australian nation. To the Japanese it was important because it offered them a doorway to Australia and it was a doorway for the allies to strike at the Greater East Asia Co-prosperity sphere. To the Americans it was a route back to the Philippines that American imperial possession which wasn't. America didn't want New Guinea at all apart from as a stepping stone to the Philippines. The Japanese didn't make a tremendous effort to hold it, once they had it, they were unwilling though, to let it go but they didn't commit the huge forces you assume they had to it.
Australia was willing to make sacrifices to defeat the Japanese. Sacrifices the Americans didn't understand or appreciate.
MWI 41061814 Gemas Expansion
Fatboy Coxy
Monthly Donor
1941, Wednesday 18 June;
The Indian driver Upendra Shah, slowed the train, continually looking out along the engine at the upcoming junction as the she eased forwards. The signal ahead was stop, and he could see in the distance a signalman walking along the tracks checking the points were set. He was nearly there, having left the coalfields of Batu Arang just under 6 hours ago, the long line of coal filled wagons testimony to that fact.
He’d done this run a hundred times or more, but today was different. The massive changes to the Gemas rail yard were already taking shape, with more sidings, warehousing and yards being built. The reason why the signalman was manually changing points was the rebuilding of the signal box to something over four times as big, but as yet unfinished. And he was heading to a new coal yard with a nearly completed coaling tower adjacent.
The signalman had finished, the stop sign changed and he slowly moved forward, passing a new yard with stacks of recently cut hardwood sleepers, freshly creosoted, and then another of ballast for rail beds. All around were coolies labouring, machinery digging, ploughing, levelling, and trains, like his, still trying to go about their daily business.
He’d stay here tonight in the FMSR employee’s dormitory, after a meal in the dining hall. It would be a chance to catch up with friends he’d known for many years. Earlier, along the track before Gemas town, he’d seen two partly completed lines parting away heading to who knows where, but tonight he’ll ask and be told of the large barracks that was beginning to be built at the end of one line, and the ground clearance being undertaken for what was rumoured to be a new airfield at the other.
He was sure the small group of Indian Nationalists he met with regularly at Sentul would be interested in all this. And he’d also learn of the big RAOC and RASC depots being built nearby, north of the town, again with planned railway sidings. But what really excited him was a couple of companies of the 5th Indian Auxiliary Pioneer Battalion, was camped here, the men having been given training in basic railbed work, were now helping to build the extensive works, and later tonight, he would be taken to a clandestine meeting, where he would be introduced to an Officer and a couple of their NCOs.
The Indian driver Upendra Shah, slowed the train, continually looking out along the engine at the upcoming junction as the she eased forwards. The signal ahead was stop, and he could see in the distance a signalman walking along the tracks checking the points were set. He was nearly there, having left the coalfields of Batu Arang just under 6 hours ago, the long line of coal filled wagons testimony to that fact.
He’d done this run a hundred times or more, but today was different. The massive changes to the Gemas rail yard were already taking shape, with more sidings, warehousing and yards being built. The reason why the signalman was manually changing points was the rebuilding of the signal box to something over four times as big, but as yet unfinished. And he was heading to a new coal yard with a nearly completed coaling tower adjacent.
The signalman had finished, the stop sign changed and he slowly moved forward, passing a new yard with stacks of recently cut hardwood sleepers, freshly creosoted, and then another of ballast for rail beds. All around were coolies labouring, machinery digging, ploughing, levelling, and trains, like his, still trying to go about their daily business.
He’d stay here tonight in the FMSR employee’s dormitory, after a meal in the dining hall. It would be a chance to catch up with friends he’d known for many years. Earlier, along the track before Gemas town, he’d seen two partly completed lines parting away heading to who knows where, but tonight he’ll ask and be told of the large barracks that was beginning to be built at the end of one line, and the ground clearance being undertaken for what was rumoured to be a new airfield at the other.
He was sure the small group of Indian Nationalists he met with regularly at Sentul would be interested in all this. And he’d also learn of the big RAOC and RASC depots being built nearby, north of the town, again with planned railway sidings. But what really excited him was a couple of companies of the 5th Indian Auxiliary Pioneer Battalion, was camped here, the men having been given training in basic railbed work, were now helping to build the extensive works, and later tonight, he would be taken to a clandestine meeting, where he would be introduced to an Officer and a couple of their NCOs.
Fatboy Coxy
Monthly Donor
Thank you Nevarinemex, a link to a lovely set of photos of the old workshops
Fatboy Coxy
Monthly Donor
and
Eyes weren't only on Japanese activities, the British authorities had major concerns about the growth of communism among the Chinese in Malaya, especially in the emerging trade unions, Malay nationalism, the state of Terengganu being a hot bed, and Indian links with Nationalists back in India.
MWI 41061909 A Visit To Borneo
Fatboy Coxy
Monthly Donor
1941, Thursday 19 June;
Sir Robert Smith, Governor of North Borneo reached out and shook hands, while wishing him a pleasant and safe journey. Lord Gort turned and climbed down from the jetty into the waiting small launch, joining his party, the boats engine idling, coxswain at the ready. The last rope released, pulled in and coiled by a seaman, the motor roared into life as the launch turned and headed out into Sandakan Bay, and the waiting seaplane, the BOAC Short S-33 Cleopatra. And so ended Gort’s tour of Northern Borneo, with Hong Kong awaiting next, via a refuelling stop at Manila.
The eleven-day tour was becoming very rewarding for him, sometimes maps were a poor second to actually being there on the ground. He better understood the distances between the significant ports, and how only ships or seaplanes could service these, there being very little in the way of roads or rail, and all only local around the towns. Meeting dignitaries face to face, able to have long, off record chats with them so much better at getting understanding their problems and dilemmas, and rephrasing them into his own, wider set of problems.
Sunday, he had arrived in Kuching, the capital of Sarawak, ruled by the White Raj, Sir Vyner Brooke, who had hosted a formal dinner that night, with Gort as guest, being introduced to Tuak. Beforehand he’d been driven out to see Kuching airfield, a major dilemma in their strategic thinking. From here maritime recon could cover a large part of the South China Sea, being much better placed than the Dutch based at Pontianak, 125 miles southwest. But first Percival was saying he didn’t have enough troops spare to defend it, while Park was saying he didn’t have any aircraft to base there. Both unhelpfully said possibly in time to come, provided further reinforcement happened.
Monday, they had flown to Miri, the administrative centre of the northern region of Sarawak, where again there was an airfield, posing the same problems as at Kuching. In the afternoon, they had been driven out to the Shell Oil Company refinery at Lutong, which was feed by pipelines from the oil fields at Miri and 25 miles up the coast at Seria in Brunei. Yesterday they had been in Victoria, Labuan Island, part of the Straits Settlements, where it had been agreed that the seaplane refuelling facilities there could be used by Dutch MLD aircraft, carrying recon missions along the northern Borneo coast.
And then yesterday afternoon they had flown here, Sandakan, capital of British North Borneo, having another formal dinner with the Governor. As with the others, the defence of the region was the major topic over dinner, the difficulties of no interior lines of communications, limited local manpower for volunteer units, lack of weapons and equipment all being expressed. It all gave Lord Gort food for thought.
Sir Robert Smith, Governor of North Borneo reached out and shook hands, while wishing him a pleasant and safe journey. Lord Gort turned and climbed down from the jetty into the waiting small launch, joining his party, the boats engine idling, coxswain at the ready. The last rope released, pulled in and coiled by a seaman, the motor roared into life as the launch turned and headed out into Sandakan Bay, and the waiting seaplane, the BOAC Short S-33 Cleopatra. And so ended Gort’s tour of Northern Borneo, with Hong Kong awaiting next, via a refuelling stop at Manila.
The eleven-day tour was becoming very rewarding for him, sometimes maps were a poor second to actually being there on the ground. He better understood the distances between the significant ports, and how only ships or seaplanes could service these, there being very little in the way of roads or rail, and all only local around the towns. Meeting dignitaries face to face, able to have long, off record chats with them so much better at getting understanding their problems and dilemmas, and rephrasing them into his own, wider set of problems.
Sunday, he had arrived in Kuching, the capital of Sarawak, ruled by the White Raj, Sir Vyner Brooke, who had hosted a formal dinner that night, with Gort as guest, being introduced to Tuak. Beforehand he’d been driven out to see Kuching airfield, a major dilemma in their strategic thinking. From here maritime recon could cover a large part of the South China Sea, being much better placed than the Dutch based at Pontianak, 125 miles southwest. But first Percival was saying he didn’t have enough troops spare to defend it, while Park was saying he didn’t have any aircraft to base there. Both unhelpfully said possibly in time to come, provided further reinforcement happened.
Monday, they had flown to Miri, the administrative centre of the northern region of Sarawak, where again there was an airfield, posing the same problems as at Kuching. In the afternoon, they had been driven out to the Shell Oil Company refinery at Lutong, which was feed by pipelines from the oil fields at Miri and 25 miles up the coast at Seria in Brunei. Yesterday they had been in Victoria, Labuan Island, part of the Straits Settlements, where it had been agreed that the seaplane refuelling facilities there could be used by Dutch MLD aircraft, carrying recon missions along the northern Borneo coast.
And then yesterday afternoon they had flown here, Sandakan, capital of British North Borneo, having another formal dinner with the Governor. As with the others, the defence of the region was the major topic over dinner, the difficulties of no interior lines of communications, limited local manpower for volunteer units, lack of weapons and equipment all being expressed. It all gave Lord Gort food for thought.
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I do not think that is the word you meant to use
The problem of defending South-East Asia in a nutshell - every port, airfield, oil well or settlement you garrison is a further strain on very limited resources, while every one you don't garrison is a freebie for the Japanese.
Fatboy Coxy
Monthly Donor
Percival did visit Borneo, which was part of his command. Brooke Popham (Lord Gort) travelled more, to Hong Kong, Manila, Australia, Burma and the Dutch East Indies, visiting some places several times.
Fatboy Coxy
Monthly Donor
Another deliberate mistake spotted!, thank you, and duly editedI do not think that is the word you meant to use
MWI 41062015 The Old Warhorse
Fatboy Coxy
Monthly Donor
1941, Friday 20 June;
She slid slowly to a stop, ropes holding her as the dry dock gates began to close, a slickly done event. She was an old warhorse, and it showed, the scars of 18 months hard work in the Med had taken a toll. In truth she was more than ready for scrapping, but the needs of the service were such that she had to be able to continue, and so a much-needed refit was about to happen.
The Singapore dockyard was a hive of activity, other ships coming and going, repairs, refits, adaptions, all part of their work. She was part of the staple diet, a challenge, given her age, but one they were very much up to meeting. The planned work would take until mid-November, and so most of her ships company, including her commander had left. A few of the old professional hands had been kept to ensure the refit went well. They would be the spine of a new crew when she recommissioned, with a new commander.
She had already been emptied, over three days, all the munitions unloaded and stored in magazine bunkers ashore. Her bunkerage oil tanks drained, and all the myriad of ships stores emptied, catalogued and stored. Orders taken for losses to be made good, replacement required of worn and damaged equipment noted.
Once the dry dock had been drained, the ship resting on wooden blocks, the hull would be cleaned, the crustaceans needed scrapping off, a few bits of damage given a permanent repair, the ASDIC unit upgraded, the screws cleaned, rudder checked. The boilers and engines would be given a complete overhaul and clean, currently she currently couldn’t manage anything greater than 16 knots, the excessive vibration threatening to tear the ship apart. And while they were at it, the bilge pumps would be replaced, some internal piping and a few valves also. Repairs in the crew’s quarters, changing out some bunks, new lockers for some, improvements in the galley, updating the refrigeration units. A large number of minor structural changes were also on order.
A Lewis gun mounting was being upgraded to a 4-barrel Vickers .303 gun, with new ammunition lockers built, and if one came out from the UK in time, a second QF 2 pounder AA gun would also be fitted. And then, with all the rust and old paint chipped off, and a several new coats of paint applied, HMAS Vampire, a V class destroyer built in 1917 for the last war, was going to be reborn, fit for this war.
She slid slowly to a stop, ropes holding her as the dry dock gates began to close, a slickly done event. She was an old warhorse, and it showed, the scars of 18 months hard work in the Med had taken a toll. In truth she was more than ready for scrapping, but the needs of the service were such that she had to be able to continue, and so a much-needed refit was about to happen.
The Singapore dockyard was a hive of activity, other ships coming and going, repairs, refits, adaptions, all part of their work. She was part of the staple diet, a challenge, given her age, but one they were very much up to meeting. The planned work would take until mid-November, and so most of her ships company, including her commander had left. A few of the old professional hands had been kept to ensure the refit went well. They would be the spine of a new crew when she recommissioned, with a new commander.
She had already been emptied, over three days, all the munitions unloaded and stored in magazine bunkers ashore. Her bunkerage oil tanks drained, and all the myriad of ships stores emptied, catalogued and stored. Orders taken for losses to be made good, replacement required of worn and damaged equipment noted.
Once the dry dock had been drained, the ship resting on wooden blocks, the hull would be cleaned, the crustaceans needed scrapping off, a few bits of damage given a permanent repair, the ASDIC unit upgraded, the screws cleaned, rudder checked. The boilers and engines would be given a complete overhaul and clean, currently she currently couldn’t manage anything greater than 16 knots, the excessive vibration threatening to tear the ship apart. And while they were at it, the bilge pumps would be replaced, some internal piping and a few valves also. Repairs in the crew’s quarters, changing out some bunks, new lockers for some, improvements in the galley, updating the refrigeration units. A large number of minor structural changes were also on order.
A Lewis gun mounting was being upgraded to a 4-barrel Vickers .303 gun, with new ammunition lockers built, and if one came out from the UK in time, a second QF 2 pounder AA gun would also be fitted. And then, with all the rust and old paint chipped off, and a several new coats of paint applied, HMAS Vampire, a V class destroyer built in 1917 for the last war, was going to be reborn, fit for this war.
Lord Gort was a notorious practical joker and was almost certainly using one of these (possibly/maybe!)I do not think that is the word you meant to use
The problem of defending South-East Asia in a nutshell - every port, airfield, oil well or settlement you garrison is a further strain on very limited resources, while every one you don't garrison is a freebie for the Japanese
MWI 41062215 The Hong Kong Chinese Regiment
Fatboy Coxy
Monthly Donor
1941, Sunday 22 June;
The stamp of 800 odd, hob nailed boots crashed out on the hard ground at the Sham Shui Po parade ground, Kowloon, as the newly formed 1st Battalion, Hong Kong Chinese Regiment came to attention. A large terraced stand was in front of them, full of local dignitaries, European and Chinese alike. The Governor, Sir Geoffry Alexander Stafford Northcote was to present the colours. Sir Geoffry, had only returned back in March, from a six month leave in the UK, but in truth, it was a mistake, as he was deeply unwell. He had until September, when his tenure was complete, but was relying on his Colonial Secretary, Norman Lockhart Smith, to manage the day-to-day affairs.
Nevertheless, this was something he couldn’t let Smith do, as not only Hong Kong, but, he felt, the eyes of the world were on him. And certainly, he knew, among the crowd, were Japanese agents keen to know more. He walked forward, his aide de camp carrying the new colours, a bright gold dragon prominent on the flag. They stopped in front of the commanding officer, newly promoted Lt Col Rodney Mayer and the regimental colour sergeant. Northcote took the colours from his ADC, and handed them to the colour sergeant. Salutes were exchanged, and while an NCO bawled out orders for the colours to be unfurled Northcote returned to his seat.
He sat back down, next to the visiting General Lord Gort, Maj Gen Arthur Grasett, commander of the Hong Kong garrison, and recently promoted Brigadier General Cedric Wallis, commander of the Hong Kong infantry brigade. They would all have dinner tonight, where no doubt the discussions would be about both his and Grasett’s pending leave of command as their terms expired, along with the continuingly worsening situation with the Japanese. He just hoped they didn’t start anything until he’d left in September.
For the Hong Kong Chinese Regiment, the training had gone well, the men were keen to learn, and had been augmented by some transfers from the Hong Kong Volunteer Defence Corps, along with ECO’s trained at the Singapore OCTU. Numbers wise, they would have a second battalion by the end of the year. They were still a bit light in numbers, and very raw, but would begin patrolling the mainland border almost immediately, along with a lot of field exercises.
They had enough rifles and small arms, but were issued sparingly with Lewis guns and lacked mortars. More and better equipment was promised, but not until the new year. The battalion would be barracked in the Hankow barracks, on the right of the parade ground, while her sister battalion, when formed would be on the left, in the Nanking barracks.
Unknown to any of them, at this very same time, in the pre-dawn light in Poland, The Germany Army was just starting their surprise attack on the Soviet Union. And the consequences of that act, was that Japan’s decision on whether to go to war or not, and who with, would be made inside the next six months, for Hong Kong, a storm more terrible than they could have possibly imagined, might be coming their way.
The stamp of 800 odd, hob nailed boots crashed out on the hard ground at the Sham Shui Po parade ground, Kowloon, as the newly formed 1st Battalion, Hong Kong Chinese Regiment came to attention. A large terraced stand was in front of them, full of local dignitaries, European and Chinese alike. The Governor, Sir Geoffry Alexander Stafford Northcote was to present the colours. Sir Geoffry, had only returned back in March, from a six month leave in the UK, but in truth, it was a mistake, as he was deeply unwell. He had until September, when his tenure was complete, but was relying on his Colonial Secretary, Norman Lockhart Smith, to manage the day-to-day affairs.
Nevertheless, this was something he couldn’t let Smith do, as not only Hong Kong, but, he felt, the eyes of the world were on him. And certainly, he knew, among the crowd, were Japanese agents keen to know more. He walked forward, his aide de camp carrying the new colours, a bright gold dragon prominent on the flag. They stopped in front of the commanding officer, newly promoted Lt Col Rodney Mayer and the regimental colour sergeant. Northcote took the colours from his ADC, and handed them to the colour sergeant. Salutes were exchanged, and while an NCO bawled out orders for the colours to be unfurled Northcote returned to his seat.
He sat back down, next to the visiting General Lord Gort, Maj Gen Arthur Grasett, commander of the Hong Kong garrison, and recently promoted Brigadier General Cedric Wallis, commander of the Hong Kong infantry brigade. They would all have dinner tonight, where no doubt the discussions would be about both his and Grasett’s pending leave of command as their terms expired, along with the continuingly worsening situation with the Japanese. He just hoped they didn’t start anything until he’d left in September.
For the Hong Kong Chinese Regiment, the training had gone well, the men were keen to learn, and had been augmented by some transfers from the Hong Kong Volunteer Defence Corps, along with ECO’s trained at the Singapore OCTU. Numbers wise, they would have a second battalion by the end of the year. They were still a bit light in numbers, and very raw, but would begin patrolling the mainland border almost immediately, along with a lot of field exercises.
They had enough rifles and small arms, but were issued sparingly with Lewis guns and lacked mortars. More and better equipment was promised, but not until the new year. The battalion would be barracked in the Hankow barracks, on the right of the parade ground, while her sister battalion, when formed would be on the left, in the Nanking barracks.
Unknown to any of them, at this very same time, in the pre-dawn light in Poland, The Germany Army was just starting their surprise attack on the Soviet Union. And the consequences of that act, was that Japan’s decision on whether to go to war or not, and who with, would be made inside the next six months, for Hong Kong, a storm more terrible than they could have possibly imagined, might be coming their way.