Fatboy Coxy

Monthly Donor
Yes but a live NorthAfrica is much more stressful than training up Malaya
I was offering apologies for his performance in North Africa, not saying I didn't pick him as Malaya's CO because of said performance. He's one of a number of officers who fell foul of the idea, that once defeated, there was no way back for them. He might have made a good corps commander in Burma 43 or France 44 IMO.
 

Fatboy Coxy

Monthly Donor
My opinion on captured equipment is to use it in theater as much as possible and throw it out when you are done.

So if you can use it in North Africa great. You might capture spare parts and ammunition too and it doesn't need to be shipped.

Half the benefit of captured equipment is reducing the strain on logistics in the short run.
I agree, they'll run short on rifles, until enough SMLE's can be shipped out, trying to keep the logistics as simple as possible

That said, these started to arrive in Malaya, possibly around September 41 (dam and blast, gave away a story line there!)
 
MWI 41030309 Hong Kong Chinese On Guard

Fatboy Coxy

Monthly Donor
1941, Monday 03 March;

Recently promoted Lieutenant Willie Miller, stood on the Murray Barracks parade ground, waiting while his company sergeant major called the men to attention. It was a small company, two platoons strong, each led by a second lieutenant, both freshly commissioned, straight off the boat from the Singapore OCTU, one a fresh faced 18-year-old, who’s family were bankers out here, the other a 50-year-old former sergeant in the Scots Guards, from the First World War, a recent transfer from the HKVDC, a journeyman, a list of former jobs as long as your arm.

They had come over to the island on Friday, from their training barracks in Kowloon, and given quarters in Murray Barracks just across Garden Road. As of from noon today, they would be mounting guard on a number of buildings, replacing soldiers from the 2/15 Punjab battalion. This would free the Punjab’s for other duties, as, with the departing of the 5/7 Rajput’s to Malaya, the Colony was down to just three battalions, the afore mentioned Punjab’s, the Royal Scots and the Middlesex. Both the Punjab’s and Middlesex were also due to transfer out to Malaya, later this year, leaving just the Royal Scots, with the new Hong Kong Chinese regiment expanding to replace the two Indian units, and a machine gun battalion being formed from the HKVDC for fixed defence duties. The HKVDC machine gun battalion would be news to most people, it forming not officially being announced until later in the month, as part of the fundamental changes occurring in the volunteer forces both in Singapore and Hong Kong.

For the Hong Kong Chinese Regt, expansion was not without problems, new recruits were plentiful, and all were very keen to join, but the logistics of equipping them was proving challenging, while finding enough Officers and NCOs was a constant worry. Hence Miller, formerly an ex-sergeant of the Seaforth Highlanders, commissioned in December last year, found himself in command of this small company.

Parade ground bashing, and mounting guard, while needed, was not something Miller particularly enjoyed, but the duties suited his former guardsman Second Lieutenant down to the ground, who was relishing the spit and polish. His other, younger officer was in awe of it all, and would need a lot of mentoring, if only he could find a good old wizen sergeant for his platoon, it would do the boy wonders. Indeed, there was an almost black market for experienced officers and men, with a number of Army Corps also vying for their services. Both the RASC and RAOC needed experienced men, along with the Royal Artillery and Royal Engineers, all of who preyed on the ranks of the HKVDC volunteers, with offers of inducement like being made up to NCO or even joining the junior officer ranks.

The crash of 80 pairs of hobnail boots stamping down on the parade ground, following the CSM’s roar, brought Miller back from his thoughts. They would have two weeks here on guard duties, before having a couple of weeks patrolling in the New Territories, as part of their development, another small company replacing them here. It was time now to detail off his men, ready for the arrival of half a dozen trucks to transport them to their various guard posts.
 

Mark1878

Donor
I was offering apologies for his performance in North Africa, not saying I didn't pick him as Malaya's CO because of said performance. He's one of a number of officers who fell foul of the idea, that once defeated, there was no way back for them. He might have made a good corps commander in Burma 43 or France 44 IMO.
Which was not unknown - see Neil Ritchie his sucessor as a not so good commander of 8th Army who later led XII Corps in NW Europe.
 
Not the same at all. The Austrians and Czechs had the factories as well. So had the whole supply chain.

Also I think the Czechs used the German Mauser round so no issue with supplies of ammo.
It was also French weapons (and a smaller number of .303 British guns), but yes lots of European nations went Mauser 7.92 (hell Britain nearly did pre war and actually did go 7.92 to some degree with the BESA Tank machine gun)
I think the rifle shortage had been solved by then, see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_rifle - para, other users, and
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1917_Enfield - para World War II, as examples.
Savage arms for example (Stevens Arms Co. plant in Chicopee Falls, Massachusetts) started production in July 1941 produced 1.2 million No4 lee Enfields by 1944

British Bren gun production was at 3500 guns a month by June 1940 (about 750 guns armed a Division)

So I don't think that small arms was the issue

It was in Artillery that British production struggled with in 1940 and into 41 so I could see perhaps some Italian artillery going to secondary theatres - I know a lot of the guns captured during Compass was sent to the Greeks

But I suspect that this would be in the NA/ME area and not Malaya

I believe that only the 18th British Division had a full allocation of 25 pounder guns in 3 Regiments of 24 guns each

8th Indian and 11th Indian each had a single rgt (24 x 25 pounders) plus 4.5" Howitzers and 3.7" mountain guns

The 8th Australian had 2 Regiments of 24 pounders but both units had only recently been equipped in November 41

A 3rd Artillery Regiment remained in Darwin and was the only sub unit of the 8th to survive the war

So if the locals (Malay units) were being equipped with artillery then I suspect that a lot of 18 pounder, 4.5" Howitzers and 3.7" Mountain guns would already be in Theatre their owners having been reequipped - but I could see a Regiment or 2 of the Italian guns being sent if only for Author Fiat
 
I did consider having Cunningham as an alternative to Percival, if I'd convinced myself of the change. I have read that part of his poor performance in North Africa, was due to the fact that he was tired, in need of a rest, after the East African Campaign.
Entry into Addis Ababa was in early April; Crusader started in November, so have some doubts.

However with hindsight, Auchinleck's choice of staff and replacement of subordinates suggest that Cunningham may have been better than his reputation suggests.
 
It was also French weapons (and a smaller number of .303 British guns), but yes lots of European nations went Mauser 7.92 (hell Britain nearly did pre war and actually did go 7.92 to some degree with the BESA Tank machine gun)

Savage arms for example (Stevens Arms Co. plant in Chicopee Falls, Massachusetts) started production in July 1941 produced 1.2 million No4 lee Enfields by 1944

British Bren gun production was at 3500 guns a month by June 1940 (about 750 guns armed a Division)

So I don't think that small arms was the issue

It was in Artillery that British production struggled with in 1940 and into 41 so I could see perhaps some Italian artillery going to secondary theatres - I know a lot of the guns captured during Compass was sent to the Greeks

But I suspect that this would be in the NA/ME area and not Malaya

I believe that only the 18th British Division had a full allocation of 25 pounder guns in 3 Regiments of 24 guns each

8th Indian and 11th Indian each had a single rgt (24 x 25 pounders) plus 4.5" Howitzers and 3.7" mountain guns

The 8th Australian had 2 Regiments of 24 pounders but both units had only recently been equipped in November 41

A 3rd Artillery Regiment remained in Darwin and was the only sub unit of the 8th to survive the war

So if the locals (Malay units) were being equipped with artillery then I suspect that a lot of 18 pounder, 4.5" Howitzers and 3.7" Mountain guns would already be in Theatre their owners having been reequipped - but I could see a Regiment or 2 of the Italian guns being sent if only for Author Fiat
Nazi used captured weapons that were not chambered for current german ammo for second line/rear area troops and training purposes.
 
Nazi used captured weapons that were not chambered for current german ammo for second line/rear area troops and training purposes.
Yep - they never did manage to produce enough weapons and trucks etc to satisfy their needs

I saw one of those colorized pictures of a Fallshirmjeager unit completely armed with Sten guns and M1A1 Carbines (garrison at Saint Nazaire and elsewhere in France often equipped troops with weapons taken from the Marquis)

Found it:

Below - German FJs at Saint Nazaire prepare to search a 'truce train' for deserters - note the mix of Sten guns (not German copies as the photo predates that production) and M1A1 Carbines


FJ Saint Nazaire 1.jpg
 

Fatboy Coxy

Monthly Donor
Which was not unknown - see Neil Ritchie his sucessor as a not so good commander of 8th Army who later led XII Corps in NW Europe.
Another one given a second chance, although due to different circumstances, was Lt Gen Richard O'Conner, commanded VIII Corps in north west Europe, after early success with Operation Compass in North Africa, before being captured. Back to Cunningham, he was same age as Ritchie, maybe Montgomery didn't fancy him, or he had health problems?
 

Fatboy Coxy

Monthly Donor
It was also French weapons (and a smaller number of .303 British guns), but yes lots of European nations went Mauser 7.92 (hell Britain nearly did pre war and actually did go 7.92 to some degree with the BESA Tank machine gun)

Savage arms for example (Stevens Arms Co. plant in Chicopee Falls, Massachusetts) started production in July 1941 produced 1.2 million No4 lee Enfields by 1944

British Bren gun production was at 3500 guns a month by June 1940 (about 750 guns armed a Division)

So I don't think that small arms was the issue

It was in Artillery that British production struggled with in 1940 and into 41 so I could see perhaps some Italian artillery going to secondary theatres - I know a lot of the guns captured during Compass was sent to the Greeks

But I suspect that this would be in the NA/ME area and not Malaya

I believe that only the 18th British Division had a full allocation of 25 pounder guns in 3 Regiments of 24 guns each

8th Indian and 11th Indian each had a single rgt (24 x 25 pounders) plus 4.5" Howitzers and 3.7" mountain guns

The 8th Australian had 2 Regiments of 24 pounders but both units had only recently been equipped in November 41

A 3rd Artillery Regiment remained in Darwin and was the only sub unit of the 8th to survive the war

So if the locals (Malay units) were being equipped with artillery then I suspect that a lot of 18 pounder, 4.5" Howitzers and 3.7" Mountain guns would already be in Theatre their owners having been reequipped - but I could see a Regiment or 2 of the Italian guns being sent if only for Author Fiat
Thanks Cryhavoc101, spot on. Historically the British mixed up the batteries, using combinations of 25 pdrs with 4.5 inch Hows, to provide sufficent range.
 

Fatboy Coxy

Monthly Donor
Yep - they never did manage to produce enough weapons and trucks etc to satisfy their needs

I saw one of those colorized pictures of a Fallshirmjeager unit completely armed with Sten guns and M1A1 Carbines (garrison at Saint Nazaire and elsewhere in France often equipped troops with weapons taken from the Marquis)

Found it:

Below - German FJs at Saint Nazaire prepare to search a 'truce train' for deserters - note the mix of Sten guns (not German copies as the photo predates that production) and M1A1 Carbines


View attachment 743367
What a fantastic photo Cryhavoc101, love it. That train station behind them looks a bit battered, bomb damage?
 
What a fantastic photo Cryhavoc101, love it. That train station behind them looks a bit battered, bomb damage?
I think it must be

Saint Nazaire was a U-boat base - so while I don't think there was much in the way of ground combat (the Garrison was simply masked?) the region was very likely 'bombed to fuck' - ah using my black belt in google fu - 60% of the Town was destroyed in a single raid on the night of 28thFeb/1st March 43 - I suspect that it was not the only one!
 
Thanks Cryhavoc101, spot on. Historically the British mixed up the batteries, using combinations of 25 pdrs with 4.5 inch Hows, to provide sufficent range.
The 25 Pounder replaced both the 18 pounder and the 4.5" Howitzer - as it was capable of being used as a field gun and a howitzer (and could outrange both - the 4.5" had a range of 6000m the 18 pounder 10000 and the 25 pounder 12000m )

The only reason units were still using the 4.5" Howitzer was due to production not initially keeping up with demand as the commonwealth army's rapidly expanded (not helped by the losses in France) and only really the UK had the industry to produce them in sufficient numbers early war

Ideally we should see each infantry Brigade supported by at least 1 x 24 gun 25 pounder Regiment and each division 3 such units - meaning that any 2nd Lt could call in 72 guns if the Division was together.
 

Fatboy Coxy

Monthly Donor
Logistically smart by the British Army, replacing two gun types with one! and we all know how important logistics are?
(you reply with, yes Fatboy Coxy, we know logistics is very important out here in Malaya!, oh can we have another aircraft, machine gun, tank, and whatever else we'd like!)
Well next post might refocus you on the problems supplying the Far East, and the Middle East for that matter , too!
 
MWI 41030816 Operation Berlin

Fatboy Coxy

Monthly Donor
1941, Saturday 08 March;

They had been tracking the distant ships for the last three hours, to see if the British battleship was still with the convoy. They’d first made contact with the convoy yesterday, and had spotted a battleship, before pulling back undetected. Vice Admiral Gunther Lutjens had been specific, there was to be no engagement with any British major units. But following the discovery of the convoy, he had liaised with a couple of U-boats, who had attacked the convoy last night and sunk five ships, it was hoped they’d bagged the battleship too.

This wasn’t the best way of doing it, ideally, he’d have used one of the four Arado Ar 196 floatplanes they were equipped with, but with one flown off to Norway, very early in the campaign, and the other three now unusable, he was left with no other choice. On the edge of the horizon, among the grey smudges, one smudge began to take shape, a more distinctive form, a battleship. Ah, she was still there then, and gamely positioning herself between him and the convoy, with some destroyers in attendance no doubt.

That big fat 10 knot convoy was a tempting target, why not split his ships, send Scharnhorst around the other side of the convoy and attack, while he remained here on his flagship, Gneisenau, holding the British battleship. She was closer now, at extreme range, and could be identified, a Queen Elizabeth class, she didn’t have anywhere near the speed to catch him, but one lucky long range shot from her 15-inch guns could ruin his afternoon.

However, they were roughly 150 miles off the West African coast, north of the Cape Verde islands, and this would be a convoy heading to Britain from Freetown, no doubt full of raw materials, but not carrying the high value war weapons from the USA. And with night approaching, he could face a destroyer attack. No, caution was the better part of valour, he’d not risk the ships, and hope for better opportunities elsewhere, later. Increasing speed, he turned his battle group out into the Atlantic, and disappeared.

After another sortie north in which they both sank a number of merchant ships, both battlecruisers headed for France, and were safely docked in Brest by 22 March, but in need to repair with serious mechanical problems. Some of Gneisenau's auxiliary systems needed maintenance that was estimated to take four weeks to complete. Scharnhorst was in a worse condition, as her boiler superheaters were defective and the pipes that moved steam around the engines had been damaged. The disruption to Allied shipping, and diversion of the Royal Navy, searching for them, allowed both the Admiral Hipper and Admiral Scheer to take advantage, and return from their raiding sorties in the Atlantic, making it back safely to Germany by the end of the month.

It concluded the Kriegsmarine’s most successful raid into the Atlantic so far, with Scharnhorst and Gneisenau sinking or capturing 22 Allied merchant vessels for no lost. Thanks to good planning, there had been plenty of supply ships positioned out in the ocean, allowing the battlecruisers to refuel and restock supplies. Allied supply routes crossing the Atlantic, from Greenland down to West Africa had been badly disrupted, and only bad luck had prevented the Germans from coming across an unescorted convoy, and wiping it out.

Lessons were to be taken from the cruise, for the Germans, further raids offered to bear considerable success, and Lutjens, now a master of this strategy would command the next one. The big ships would now be allowed to engage escorting warships of comparable size, allowing their consorts to attack the convoys freely, supply ships would remain with the battle group for as long as possible, extending the width of search, when looking for convoys, and submarines would be stationed at strategic points, to help scout for the convoys.

For the British, the raid had caused considerable consternation, feeling thankful they hadn’t had a convoy wiped out. They would have to assign more battleships to convoy escort, but what really alarmed them was the ease in which German ships had passed through the northern gates to the Atlantic, unnoticed. A lot more cruisers and AMCs would have to be assigned to patrolling the seas both north and south of Iceland, to detect the raiders as they entered the Atlantic.
 
They would have to assign more battleships to convoy escort, but what really alarmed them was the ease in which German ships had passed through the northern gates to the Atlantic, unnoticed. A lot more cruisers and AMCs would have to be assigned to patrolling the seas both north and south of Iceland, to detect the raiders as they entered the Atlantic.
*cries in ABDAFLOAT*
 
Another one given a second chance, although due to different circumstances, was Lt Gen Richard O'Conner, commanded VIII Corps in north west Europe, after early success with Operation Compass in North Africa, before being captured. Back to Cunningham, he was same age as Ritchie, maybe Montgomery didn't fancy him, or he had health problems?
Slightly different issues:
Ritchie had a great track record as a staff officer, but little experience in combat command; he was out-generalled by Rommel but could learn from the experience. There's a lot can be said about the almost impossible setup he was dropped into but it would be off-topic here.
The black mark against Cunningham was his loss in self-confidence during Crusader; something that would always be in the back of the mind of his superiors if he was given another combat command.
 
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1941, Saturday 08 March;
For the British, the raid had caused considerable consternation, feeling thankful they hadn’t had a convoy wiped out. They would have to assign more battleships to convoy escort, but what really alarmed them was the ease in which German ships had passed through the northern gates to the Atlantic, unnoticed. A lot more cruisers and AMCs would have to be assigned to patrolling the seas both north and south of Iceland, to detect the raiders as they entered the Atlantic.
Encounters between German raiders and RN AMCs puts one in mind of this OTL action. It's a remarkable event and worth reading about.

 

Fatboy Coxy

Monthly Donor
An even more despairing action, which amply highlighted the vulnerability of these armed merchant cruisers so early in the war, and must have been on the mind of Captain Edward Fegen when he decided to engage was the loss of HMS Rawalpindi, see below
 
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