Hi Stubear1012, I would have thought so, but I haven't found anything mentioned. I know the Indian Field Engineers had some problems with the Gun Cotton they were issued, and I thought it was WWI stock, but it may have come from the tin mines, as they would have probably used gun cotton too.
Malay tin mines were almost all open cast, its a massive alluvial deposit so not particularly solid or deep. The mining firms were using dredgers and excavators not explosives.

If there are any deep level works I suspect they will be using dynamite and blasting caps and not gun cotton. Blasting caps give you better control which you need for pattern blasting
 
And an Observer Corps?
Certainly Malaya will need the entire supporting system of command centre, filter room and phone lines, lots and lots of dedicated phone lines. Which was apparently an OTL problem in Malaya, which shouldn't have been a surprise as even in the UK the RAF had to get the GPO to install loads more dedicated phone lines for them.

OTL Malaya only got standard chain home type sets, so it lacked coverage in land and down low. Even if more sets are made available there is a crucial shortage of trained people to man them, so I suspect it will be the same here. In that case an Observer Corps can fill in the gaps, as long as it's all connected up.
 
Two main reasons strike me as why the Japanese didn't use these arms in other conflicts, one, the Japanese were aware of their logistical frailties, and adding another gun, with different ammunition was a problem, and secondly, in their opinion, it wasn't warranted. Japanese army units were expected to be somewhat frugal with their ammunition, it was often stated that their spiritual strengths would see them vanquish forces despite having poorer equipment, and to some degree that did work. For long range, they had machine guns and rifle, for close range, the grenade and bayonet, hence the Banzai charges.
My understanding of it is that the Japanese had quite a modern approach to low-level infantry tactics - they didn't view firefights as a rifleman's job, instead they relied heavily on mortar/MG teams for firepower with the riflemen used as scouting/flanking elements. On contacting the enemy the support weapons would pin him down while the riflemen flanked or worked close enough to rush the position. You're right about their hopeless logistics though.

Re Sub Machine guns in the Far East
This is all very interesting - and slightly beside the point as one of the few things Malaya isn't short of is basic small arms and the ammunition to shoot from them.
The shortages are almost everything else - aircraft, tanks, transport, artillery, AT & AA guns, mortars and LMGs ...

And not just combat equipment. Reading up on the campaign, one of the things that struck me was how badly the British suffered from bad communications. Again and again, units failed to get their orders, or warnings were not passed on, or the British artillery (their strongest weapon) could not be called in because at the crucial moment the field-telephone lines were down. Equipping and training some Field Signaling Units may not be as sexy as tanks or fighters or even Sten guns, but it will pay off heavily in the jungle.
 

Fatboy Coxy

Monthly Donor
And an Observer Corps?
What have the romans ever done for us!
The radar

Oh. Yeah, yeah, they did give us that, ah, that’s true, yeah.

Air Control
Yeah, all right, I’ll grant you the radar and air control, the two things the Romans have done.

And the Observer Corps
Oh, yeah, obviously the Observer Corps. I mean the Observer Corps go without saying, don’t they?

For those that need enlightenment
 

Fatboy Coxy

Monthly Donor
And an Observer Corps?
and
Certainly Malaya will need the entire supporting system of command centre, filter room and phone lines, lots and lots of dedicated phone lines. Which was apparently an OTL problem in Malaya, which shouldn't have been a surprise as even in the UK the RAF had to get the GPO to install loads more dedicated phone lines for them.

OTL Malaya only got standard chain home type sets, so it lacked coverage in land and down low. Even if more sets are made available there is a crucial shortage of trained people to man them, so I suspect it will be the same here. In that case an Observer Corps can fill in the gaps, as long as it's all connected up.
Telephone communications was both good and bad, if that makes sense (I love that saying!) They had the best network in the Far East, which in peacetime was OK, although there was always more demand than could be met on provision of telephones and lines. In comparison with the USA and Western Europe, they would have rated as poor. However the explosion of demand by the military authorities, was simply too much, to the extent that pre-war, Percival et al had to book time slots, and was in danger of being cut off by the telephone operator if he went over time. The success of an Observer Corps is as much about its ability to relay its information, as much as anything else. They did have one, but, it was very limited.

Radar, a massive part of my argument why Malaya might be held, and there will be a number of stories on it. Two types of radar was provided, COL (Chain Overseas Low) was the overseas version of CHL (Chain Home Low), and they planned to operate two of these, one each side to a mobile version of the CH (Chain Home) radar, a Mk 9 with a designation of TRU, and later MRU. The TRU was transportable, the MRU was mobile, using a couple of Crossley trucks. These were still very much the infant days of radar, things constantly changing, upgrades, improvements etc.

The Wikipedia site gives you some idea

But of course, it too relied on communications to be effective. And again, there will be a few stories on how this is addressed.
 
Radar, a massive part of my argument why Malaya might be held, and there will be a number of stories on it. Two types of radar was provided, COL (Chain Overseas Low) was the overseas version of CHL (Chain Home Low), and they planned to operate two of these, one each side to a mobile version of the CH (Chain Home) radar, a Mk 9 with a designation of TRU, and later MRU. The TRU was transportable, the MRU was mobile, using a couple of Crossley trucks. These were still very much the infant days of radar, things constantly changing, upgrades, improvements etc.
I think the emphasis there is on 'planned' As I said in OTL no low level radar made it to Malaya despite requests going back to September 1939 (and probably earlier), various sets were en-route from UK and the Middle East but they only started forming up for departure December 1941 so obviously never made it in time. Hell the 'full' sets weren't planned to be despatched until April 1942!

There wasn't a big stock of any sort of radar set and there definitely wasn't any manpower. TRE were "bone dry" of suitable men as early as March 1941 (when it was suggested to send some experts to help set up the Chain Overseas radar) and they only got busier. If Malaya is to get any sort of low level radar (COL, ACO, any of them) it's going to come from 'borrowing' it from another theatre complete with the operators. Which is fine, but which theatre are you going to de-prioritise?
 

Fatboy Coxy

Monthly Donor
I think the emphasis there is on 'planned' As I said in OTL no low level radar made it to Malaya despite requests going back to September 1939 (and probably earlier), various sets were en-route from UK and the Middle East but they only started forming up for departure December 1941 so obviously never made it in time. Hell the 'full' sets weren't planned to be despatched until April 1942!

There wasn't a big stock of any sort of radar set and there definitely wasn't any manpower. TRE were "bone dry" of suitable men as early as March 1941 (when it was suggested to send some experts to help set up the Chain Overseas radar) and they only got busier. If Malaya is to get any sort of low level radar (COL, ACO, any of them) it's going to come from 'borrowing' it from another theatre complete with the operators. Which is fine, but which theatre are you going to de-prioritise?
They did get some radar units working just before the start of the fighting, two,
511 AMES COL - Bukit Chunang, South-East Johore, CO Ft Lt D A Donald and
512 AMES COL - Tanjong Kupang, South-West Johore, CO Ft Lt L J Audus
were both low level and operational, but you're right, there were shortages in spares and manpower, and no effective radar network, and that was around Singapore, which was the best served area, the north had nothing.

How am I going to solve that, well,
MWI 41011400 Parks Priorities His Airfields
1941, Tuesday 14 January;

Looking at the development of a radar network, here they were sadly lacking, with few units allocated and none yet installed and working. Expressing concerns Park, had found support from Portal, who had agreed a diversion of units from West Africa, namely two COL units, 513 and 514 and a MRU, 244, to Singapore, being temporary backfilled by a unit promised to the Middle East, with Singapore giving up the same number of units later on in its allocation. These units should arrive in March.
I've already taken a set of three from West Africa, Freetown, backfilled by a single unit (unidentified) promised for the Middle East, which I think is a bit of a stretch, depends on how much we think Freetown needs that radar. BTW, COL units (low level) could also be used a surface search, helping manage Freetown's maritime traffic.
 

Fatboy Coxy

Monthly Donor
I had a private message which asked a question worthy of debate, so without embarrassing the individual, and no its not Draconis before you ask, I've posted it here

"The trouble was airfields took a lot longer to build than squadrons being sent out from the UK to arrive did." (my quote)

Are you sure?
1 - surely those ovoid grass runways were not so time consuming? Plus sheds for repair work etc.
2 - two or three months for the ships with air units to arrive from Ol' Blighty.
True that all-weather, concrete runway affairs for bombers could take some time. However, I suspect that fighters and army cooperation types could be provided with runways quite quickly.

So, they have a point, surely ten weeks, about the average time for a ship to arrive in Singapore from the UK, should be enough time to provide a grass runway? Well in theory, yes, but we need to consider the need to clear the land of jungle, or plantation, level it, provide decent drainage and then seed it, or turf it, which I’ve not personally read was done anywhere. Could that be done in ten weeks, yes, I’d think so, but you’ll need a very big workforce or a lot of earth moving equipment, neither of which the Public Works Department (the main builder of airfields) had. And of course, you’ve only got a grass airfield, which is fine for light aircraft, except when it rains, and it rains a lot in Malaya.

So of course, the answer to that is hard runways, concrete, problems solved. Er limited concrete supplies you say, Malaya doesn’t produce it themselves, only imported, oh dear. Oh and we need to put a much thicker base down which does need earth moving equipment. Where’s a SeeBee’s unit when you want one, they weren’t raised until the beginning of 1942, oh!

Airfield construction in Malaya was slow, and it was correct to say they took longer to build than the squadrons could be delivered, but I’m going to have to improve on that in this timeline, and you’ll see some stories covering that (this is getting to be my standard comeback now!)
 
I had a private message which asked a question worthy of debate, so without embarrassing the individual, and no its not Draconis before you ask, I've posted it here

"The trouble was airfields took a lot longer to build than squadrons being sent out from the UK to arrive did." (my quote)

Are you sure?
1 - surely those ovoid grass runways were not so time consuming? Plus sheds for repair work etc.
2 - two or three months for the ships with air units to arrive from Ol' Blighty.
True that all-weather, concrete runway affairs for bombers could take some time. However, I suspect that fighters and army cooperation types could be provided with runways quite quickly.

So, they have a point, surely ten weeks, about the average time for a ship to arrive in Singapore from the UK, should be enough time to provide a grass runway? Well in theory, yes, but we need to consider the need to clear the land of jungle, or plantation, level it, provide decent drainage and then seed it, or turf it, which I’ve not personally read was done anywhere. Could that be done in ten weeks, yes, I’d think so, but you’ll need a very big workforce or a lot of earth moving equipment, neither of which the Public Works Department (the main builder of airfields) had. And of course, you’ve only got a grass airfield, which is fine for light aircraft, except when it rains, and it rains a lot in Malaya.

So of course, the answer to that is hard runways, concrete, problems solved. Er limited concrete supplies you say, Malaya doesn’t produce it themselves, only imported, oh dear. Oh and we need to put a much thicker base down which does need earth moving equipment. Where’s a SeeBee’s unit when you want one, they weren’t raised until the beginning of 1942, oh!

Airfield construction in Malaya was slow, and it was correct to say they took longer to build than the squadrons could be delivered, but I’m going to have to improve on that in this timeline, and you’ll see some stories covering that (this is getting to be my standard comeback now!)
Marston Matting would be the answer if it can be deployed a year earlier than OTL and was made available to the British earlier

The US system was based on British (a light matting system) and French (a heavier Matting system) systems at the beginning of the war - although neither system was as robust as the later Marston system it might prove to be an answer here in allowing aircraft to operate in wet ground conditions that might otherwise have grounded them.
1648582818369.png
 
Is it accurate to say that especially due to heavy rains in the region that concrete runways were a necessity for bomber use due to the higher ground pressure of heavier aircraft?
 
Airfield construction in Malaya was slow, and it was correct to say they took longer to build than the squadrons could be delivered, but I’m going to have to improve on that in this timeline, and you’ll see some stories covering that (this is getting to be my standard comeback now!)
Some technologies here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Landing_Ground

PBS ie jute matting soaked with asphalt may be the easiest local improvisation, as the others will require supplies of steel
 

Fatboy Coxy

Monthly Donor
Re airfields,
Is it accurate to say that especially due to heavy rains in the region that concrete runways were a necessity for bomber use due to the higher ground pressure of heavier aircraft?
Yes, most certainly, and they planned to build at least three airfields in Malaya for the USAAF B17 bombers, which would most certainly need concrete runways.

Thanks Cryhavoc101 for the nod to Marston Matting, I knew about it, but as you say, it needs to be at least a year early in its conception, and I'm not sure I'd be able to argue for that (to myself at least)

And thanks Aber, that's a great Wiki page, never seen it before. PBS, that does sound good, both jute and oil for the asphalt are in easy supply in Malaya, I'll need to look into that, but its probably an emergency measure once the fighting has started.
 
MWI 41011710 French Navy Strikes Back

Fatboy Coxy

Monthly Donor
1941, Friday 17 January;

Dawn broke over a calm sea as the sleek lines of the grey painted cruiser glided by the small jungle clad island, her guns traversing northwards, waiting for a glimpse of her prey, who’s rising smoke told of ship’s crews trying to raise steam. And as the island slide by port side, so the first of two torpedo boats emerged, anchored close to the shoreline. Gun fire breaks out, a number of shots, 76mm guns firing from the torpedo boat, water splashes well short of the cruiser.

The captain on the bridge listened, an officer reporting “range 8,000 metres”, “open fire” he replied, and first two and then a second later another two 155mm guns roared out. The shells crashed into the land behind, the gunnery officer noted and adjusted the range, and as the cruiser fully cleared the island so the aft two twin turrets fired, followed about five seconds later by the front guns. Hits! Flashes of explosions, debris flung in the air, smoke beginning to rise.

And now sight of a second torpedo boat emerges, anchored in line, further along the coastline. More gunnery adjustments, as the first two turrets reacquire their new target, the aft guns continuing to play fire on the first boat. More fire from single 76mm guns is coming in, inaccurate, sporadic. Further hits on the first torpedo boat, men now jumping off the ship, she’s well ablaze now, listing, in a sorry state.

A hit now on the second boat, a further two hits, smoke, fire. The first boat is listing badly now, going down, the sea rushing in to extinguish the fires, as she fills and sinks.
More hits on the second boat, no returning fire, men leaping off her too, swimming, trying to head for shore, 200 yards away, a sandy beach. Another salvo, hit after hit, explosions, debris in the air, the ship begins to roll over. “Cease Fire” and in the following silence, the noise of a ship breaking apart can be heard, escaping air bubbling up, as she too descends beneath the waves.

Another island begins to slide by, the last moments of the sinking boat lost behind the jungle foliage. They sail on, still at action stations, searching. The waters begin to shallow, and the captain orders a 180-degree turn. As she turns, her starboard side swinging northwards, a shout goes up, “Ship bearing 320, battleship, range 10,000 metres, open fire,” pauses in between as the information is processed.

The guns begin to fire, the fall of shot being observed, range adjusted. The “battleship” fires back, 8-inch shells whistling in. A small tall isle slides by, target lost, five, ten, fifteen seconds pass, she’s in sight again, gunfire begins, turret by turret. A hit, the bridge of the battleship, a large gunboat in reality, but another isle, slightly bigger, longer, sliding by, target lost, count the seconds, ten, twenty, thirty, forty, target back in sight.

The “Battleship has shifted her fire onto the two French sloops, who were offering support for the cruiser, sailing through another channel, salvoes falling all around the leading sloop. The cruiser resumes fire, as she turns about, rounding another of the small islands, port side swinging round again. A full salvo, the turn continuing, broadside on now, another full salvo, another hit, the battleship’s aft turret stops returning fire, belching smoke and fire, but she’s saved as another island slides by, the cruiser can’t use the channel to close with the “battleship”, due to the shallow waters. They count the seconds, awaiting the next gap between the islands, the “battleship” remaining in the shallower waters, in some safety.

The island passes, the “battleship in sight” again, looking in a bad way, burning fiercely, creeping northwards, away to safety. The guns resume, no returning fire, a straddle, a hit, the ship listing over to starboard, but still creeping north. Another island coming up and she’ll be out of sight, and out of range when they next acquire her again. A change of tactics, range 15,000 metres, launch torpedoes, four 22-inch fish dive in and surge forward, (maximum range at about 30 knots) as they near the next island. The fish swim by the island, heading for the “battleship” and the island obstructs their view again. The waters shallowing again, mustn’t ground, time to turn, orders given, and the bows swing round. Back pass the island, guns ready again, but no “battleship” in sight, she’s either sunk or beached further up the channel, but it’s too shallow to go look.

Time to break off the action, head back out into open sea. The sloops come into sight, and then two smaller gunboats, who had been covering a third channel, everybody happy. Semaphores flashing, formation set, and they begin the journey home.

Three hours after dawn now, and the warning cry “aircraft bearing…” the 3-inch AA guns swivelling round to acquire their targets. The planes begin their bombing run, the guns firing as fast as they could. Bombs fall, miss, near miss, hit, but it fails to explode, near miss, and then it’s over, the aircraft flowing home, the damage being assessed being minor, but a small price for what they had done.

The initial border skirmishes between France and Thailand had begun in late 1940, but had quickly developed in a full-scale war in the new year. Thai troops quickly overran Laos, the French were able to slow the advance down in Cambodia, but a counter attack failed. At best a stalemate for now. And in the air, Thailand had the better of it too.

But now France was fighting back, a major portion of the Thai navy was destroyed at the battle of Ko Chang, leaving Captain Regis Berenger, and his light cruiser Lamotte-Picquet as heroes of Vichy France.
 
1941, Friday 17 January;

Dawn broke over a calm sea as the sleek lines of the grey painted cruiser glided by the small jungle clad island, her guns traversing northwards, waiting for a glimpse of her prey, who’s rising smoke told of ship’s crews trying to raise steam. And as the island slide by port side, so the first of two torpedo boats emerged, anchored close to the shoreline. Gun fire breaks out, a number of shots, 76mm guns firing from the torpedo boat, water splashes well short of the cruiser.

The captain on the bridge listened, an officer reporting “range 8,000 metres”, “open fire” he replied, and first two and then a second later another two 155mm guns roared out. The shells crashed into the land behind, the gunnery officer noted and adjusted the range, and as the cruiser fully cleared the island so the aft two twin turrets fired, followed about five seconds later by the front guns. Hits! Flashes of explosions, debris flung in the air, smoke beginning to rise.

And now sight of a second torpedo boat emerges, anchored in line, further along the coastline. More gunnery adjustments, as the first two turrets reacquire their new target, the aft guns continuing to play fire on the first boat. More fire from single 76mm guns is coming in, inaccurate, sporadic. Further hits on the first torpedo boat, men now jumping off the ship, she’s well ablaze now, listing, in a sorry state.

A hit now on the second boat, a further two hits, smoke, fire. The first boat is listing badly now, going down, the sea rushing in to extinguish the fires, as she fills and sinks.
More hits on the second boat, no returning fire, men leaping off her too, swimming, trying to head for shore, 200 yards away, a sandy beach. Another salvo, hit after hit, explosions, debris in the air, the ship begins to roll over. “Cease Fire” and in the following silence, the noise of a ship breaking apart can be heard, escaping air bubbling up, as she too descends beneath the waves.

Another island begins to slide by, the last moments of the sinking boat lost behind the jungle foliage. They sail on, still at action stations, searching. The waters begin to shallow, and the captain orders a 180-degree turn. As she turns, her starboard side swinging northwards, a shout goes up, “Ship bearing 320, battleship, range 10,000 metres, open fire,” pauses in between as the information is processed.

The guns begin to fire, the fall of shot being observed, range adjusted. The “battleship” fires back, 8-inch shells whistling in. A small tall isle slides by, target lost, five, ten, fifteen seconds pass, she’s in sight again, gunfire begins, turret by turret. A hit, the bridge of the battleship, a large gunboat in reality, but another isle, slightly bigger, longer, sliding by, target lost, count the seconds, ten, twenty, thirty, forty, target back in sight.

The “Battleship has shifted her fire onto the two French sloops, who were offering support for the cruiser, sailing through another channel, salvoes falling all around the leading sloop. The cruiser resumes fire, as she turns about, rounding another of the small islands, port side swinging round again. A full salvo, the turn continuing, broadside on now, another full salvo, another hit, the battleship’s aft turret stops returning fire, belching smoke and fire, but she’s saved as another island slides by, the cruiser can’t use the channel to close with the “battleship”, due to the shallow waters. They count the seconds, awaiting the next gap between the islands, the “battleship” remaining in the shallower waters, in some safety.

The island passes, the “battleship in sight” again, looking in a bad way, burning fiercely, creeping northwards, away to safety. The guns resume, no returning fire, a straddle, a hit, the ship listing over to starboard, but still creeping north. Another island coming up and she’ll be out of sight, and out of range when they next acquire her again. A change of tactics, range 15,000 metres, launch torpedoes, four 22-inch fish dive in and surge forward, (maximum range at about 30 knots) as they near the next island. The fish swim by the island, heading for the “battleship” and the island obstructs their view again. The waters shallowing again, mustn’t ground, time to turn, orders given, and the bows swing round. Back pass the island, guns ready again, but no “battleship” in sight, she’s either sunk or beached further up the channel, but it’s too shallow to go look.

Time to break off the action, head back out into open sea. The sloops come into sight, and then two smaller gunboats, who had been covering a third channel, everybody happy. Semaphores flashing, formation set, and they begin the journey home.

Three hours after dawn now, and the warning cry “aircraft bearing…” the 3-inch AA guns swivelling round to acquire their targets. The planes begin their bombing run, the guns firing as fast as they could. Bombs fall, miss, near miss, hit, but it fails to explode, near miss, and then it’s over, the aircraft flowing home, the damage being assessed being minor, but a small price for what they had done.

The initial border skirmishes between France and Thailand had begun in late 1940, but had quickly developed in a full-scale war in the new year. Thai troops quickly overran Laos, the French were able to slow the advance down in Cambodia, but a counter attack failed. At best a stalemate for now. And in the air, Thailand had the better of it too.

But now France was fighting back, a major portion of the Thai navy was destroyed at the battle of Ko Chang, leaving Captain Regis Berenger, and his light cruiser Lamotte-Picquet as heroes of Vichy France.
@Fatboy Coxy

It would have been good if Captain Regis Berenger and his ship would have turn over to the Free French and move to Singapore. Would have helped out along.
 
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