Malaya garrison redeployed to North Africa, May 1941

True, which is why the 2-1 odds on the offensive would presumably be necessary; certainly being able to sustain 3 divisions/9 brigades against the Axis mobile forces is more likely to create success than the (historical) 1-1 was, generally.

On the defensive, of course, it's another situation entirely for the British et al.

Best,

I'm wondering what would have been possible by the OTL British forces given a modicum of luck and perhaps better command and command decisions. For example Britain was caught short twice, after Compass and Crusader, by Rommel's early/premature recon in force turning into successful offensives. Surely these could have been avoided given the forces at Britain's disposal and different deployment.
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Very true; having a stronger mobile force would not have

I'm wondering what would have been possible by the OTL British forces given a modicum of luck and perhaps better command and command decisions. For example Britain was caught short twice, after Compass and Crusader, by Rommel's early/premature recon in force turning into successful offensives. Surely these could have been avoided given the forces at Britain's disposal and different deployment.

Very true; having a stronger mobile force would not have hurt, either.

If the entire 2nd Armoured Division had been concentrated for Agedabia/Sonnenblomme in the spring of 1941 (rather than having half the division alloted to Greece) it is possible they could have done better; likewise, if the British had the equivalent of three mobile divisions for CRUSADER, rather than just two, in the fall, 8th Army might have destroyed the Italians entirely and forced the Germans to retreat...

Of course, LUSTRE would have been different, and that would have had ripples of its own...same with providing more armor to the 8th Army, and less to the Soviets, in 1941...which leads to ripples in own right, of course.

For most of 1940-41, the British were trying to do too much with too little in the Med and the littoral; whether the strategy that led to those operations could have been changed is an open question.

Best,
 
Yes and as a result got defeated in detail.

From what I can tell the 2nd AD had 3rd AB with 1 regt light tanks, 1 regt cruiser tanks (that drove on their own tracks from Egypt) and 1 regt of captured Italian tanks and the 2nd Support Group with an inf btn, arty regt and AT regt. These were forward positioned at Agedabia. A bit later the 3rd Indian Motor Brigade was chopped to the 2nd AD, it was setting up a brigade defensive position at Mechilli, 200 miles further back. Ideally the British should have chosen one or the other, and given how badly the tanks were performing I'd suggest Mechilli and chopping the 3rd IMB to the 2nd AD earlier than OTL.

Lustre is difficult because the big game changer there was the coup in Yugoslavia which meant that Germany overran that (big) country in 3 days. That's event which made the British decisions about Greece up to that point as wrong as could be.

I'm thinking of putting together a dot point of British armour movements around the Med to lay it all out.
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Yep; if the 1st Armoured Brigade had been in Libya,

Yes and as a result got defeated in detail.

From what I can tell the 2nd AD had 3rd AB with 1 regt light tanks, 1 regt cruiser tanks (that drove on their own tracks from Egypt) and 1 regt of captured Italian tanks and the 2nd Support Group with an inf btn, arty regt and AT regt. These were forward positioned at Agedabia. A bit later the 3rd Indian Motor Brigade was chopped to the 2nd AD, it was setting up a brigade defensive position at Mechilli, 200 miles further back. Ideally the British should have chosen one or the other, and given how badly the tanks were performing I'd suggest Mechilli and chopping the 3rd IMB to the 2nd AD earlier than OTL.

Lustre is difficult because the big game changer there was the coup in Yugoslavia which meant that Germany overran that (big) country in 3 days. That's event which made the British decisions about Greece up to that point as wrong as could be.

I'm thinking of putting together a dot point of British armour movements around the Med to lay it all out.

Yep; if the 1st Armoured Brigade had been in Cyrenaica, presmably it could have made a difference. From what I can tell, the brigade had three maneuver battalions (2 armored, one motorized infantry), plus three battalions of motorized field, anti-tank, and anti-aircraft artillery. In the scheme of things in 1941, not a huge difference in Greece but possibly a game-changer in Libya.

Best,
 
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Yep; if the 1st Armoured Brigade had been in Cyrenaica, presmably it could have made a difference. From what I can tell, the brigade had three maneauver battalions (2 armored, one motorized infantry), plus three battalions of motorized field, anti-tank, and anti-aircraft artillery. In the scheme of things in 1941, not a huge difference in Greece but possibly a game-changer in Libya.

Best,

Even if the 1st AB is still sent to Greece perhaps reverse the deployment of the 2nd AD and the 3rd IMB. The 3rd IMB can retire up the coast road and the 2nd AD can be at Mechilli to await the 5th Light from a better supplied position.

AfricaMap2.jpg
 
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