Malê Rising

iddt3

Donor
You know, if the BOG play it right, having the Belgians come in might not be a bad thing. They just need to do it at a time when France doesn't expect it and NG does, allowing NG to rush forward and take up defensive positions while occupying as much of Belgium as possible. Say the Catholic parties hold a vote for War that they're sure they're going to lose, the idea is merely to generate support and publicity. Only the expected opposition doesn't materialize, and to their horror, they've now declared war on NG with absolutely no preparation or warning to France.
 
You know, if the BOG play it right, having the Belgians come in might not be a bad thing. They just need to do it at a time when France doesn't expect it and NG does, allowing NG to rush forward and take up defensive positions while occupying as much of Belgium as possible. Say the Catholic parties hold a vote for War that they're sure they're going to lose, the idea is merely to generate support and publicity. Only the expected opposition doesn't materialize, and to their horror, they've now declared war on NG with absolutely no preparation or warning to France.

Not to mention without warning the Belgian Army.

I'm not sure how this would happen, though - I can't imagine the other parties declaring war on North Germany just to embarrass the Catholic Party. In a close vote, the absence of a couple of opposing deputies might make a difference - but if the vote is likely to be that close, the PC leadership will count votes very carefully before they make their motion. It would take a pretty bizarre turn of events - or a significant bloc of deputies who are actually on the BOGs' payroll - for Belgium to go to war by accident.

Very good update. What's up with Ireland? It sounds like it's going to be a very thorny issue.

Ireland is tense. Many Irishmen are off with the army, so there's a great deal of "support our sons" sentiment, but there's also a strong sense that if the dominions are making demands, Ireland should get in line with a few of its own. Opinions among the pro-Home Rule faction are divided as to whether the best way to get what they want is to cooperate and seek reward later, to initiate industrial actions, or to get French weapons and rebel now. Thus far, the would-be rebels are in a distinct minority, but a ham-handed response to a strike or protest could change that.

I'm currently planning for matters in Ireland to come to a head late in year three, although the only certain thing is that the island will be deeply divided.

BTW, for those who may have missed it, the update is at the end of the previous page, at post 1620. The recruiting poster is from OTL.
 
Heh. Not on topic, but the poster talking about the young lions coming to the aid of the old is kinda amusing, given the normal relationships between younger and older lions... :D [1]

Bruce

[1] Of course, the Lion back in 1896 was the Noblest of Beasts rather than the lazy, murderous thug that modern TV nature specials have brought into focus... :)
 
Heh. Not on topic, but the poster talking about the young lions coming to the aid of the old is kinda amusing, given the normal relationships between younger and older lions... :D [1]

Bruce

[1] Of course, the Lion back in 1896 was the Noblest of Beasts rather than the lazy, murderous thug that modern TV nature specials have brought into focus... :)

This sounds awfully to the point.
 
Fine update. This Imperial Cabinet is truly unprecedented. The British seem to be truly giving the dominions some status in how they are run. I assume, though, that the white dominions and Britain still form a majority in the cabinet, and that all members in the Cabinet answer to the PM.

I haven't been commenting as much lately, but that's simply because I've had less interesting to add. This is a truly fantastic timeline, Jonathan. Congratulations.

Cheers,
Ganesha
 
Fine update. This Imperial Cabinet is truly unprecedented. The British seem to be truly giving the dominions some status in how they are run. I assume, though, that the white dominions and Britain still form a majority in the cabinet, and that all members in the Cabinet answer to the PM.

There was something similar in OTL during World War I, although it wasn't created until relatively late in the war. It's happening somewhat earlier in TTL because the British army is relatively weaker and the dominions and colonies relatively stronger.

At this point, the dominions all have internal self-government; what's new about the War Cabinet is that it gives the dominions' leadership a say in imperial affairs, and as OTL, it will be a platform for them to increase their status vis-a-vis Britain.

You're correct that the white dominions and Britain are in the majority. TTL's War Cabinet has 32 members, of which 15 are British and 11 represent the white dominions; of the six who represent the colonies, only four are non-white (the two maharajas and the two African royals). And the PM does call the shots, although a good deal of horse-trading goes on before any decision is made.

BTW, the War Cabinet of OTL had one non-white member - Maharaja Sir Ganga Singh of Bikaner, who held a major general's rank in the British army at the time. The reason there are more in TTL is that India's contribution to the war effort is greater, and Africa is an important source of troops and war materiel rather than the cipher it was in OTL (the strength of the King's African Rifles in OTL was about 30,000 at the end of the war, while at this point in TTL, there are more than 250,000 fighting in the West African theater alone, and there will be a million in arms by war's end).

Thanks for continuing to read and comment - I'd certainly appreciate your insights on how the relationship between the Raj, the princely states, the moderate nationalists and the more revolutionary nationalists will play out during the course of the war.
 
I'm actually really interested in seeing what effect the war would have on the immigrant communities in the various metropoles, like the Indians and Malê in London and the Senegalese in Paris. What is cuisine like? Will we see more of these people involved in the métropole governments? What about film? The war will profoundly affect the French film industry, as it did OTL....what types of film would develop? It's a nascent industry right now, so it would be hella cool, for sure.
 
I'm actually really interested in seeing what effect the war would have on the immigrant communities in the various metropoles, like the Indians and Malê in London and the Senegalese in Paris. What is cuisine like? Will we see more of these people involved in the métropole governments? What about film? The war will profoundly affect the French film industry, as it did OTL....what types of film would develop? It's a nascent industry right now, so it would be hella cool, for sure.

Patience, my child; there will be some homefront scenes involving them very soon. :p

They're certainly going to stay politically involved, like any immigrant community. The Africans in France will be more influential in the short term simply because there are more of them; there's already a majority-African arrondissement in Paris, and the Senegalese (who are the first Africans to arrive and thus the community leaders) are active in municipal politics there and in Marseilles. There are fewer Africans in the UK, but they punch somewhat above their weight due to their involvement in the trade union movement, and one of the postwar plots as currently planned will involve them flexing their political muscles.

Food: France will see, and has indeed already seen, the mainstreaming of a Franco-Senegalese cuisine strikingly similar to Senegalese food of OTL (which has considerable French influence). Jollof rice, yassa chicken and dibi are all common fare in Paris neighborhood restaurants. If you're ever in NYC, go to Africa Kine on West 116th Street and you'll get exactly the kind of food that TTL's Parisians have available.

There has also been some immigration from Guinea, Cote d'Ivoire and the Congo, which is not yet as influential but is also starting to leave a mark on local cuisine, with leafy stews, attiéké (grated cassava - it's very good) and regional specialties like kedjenou chicken. At some point during the early twentieth century, all this will start to combine into a Franco-African fusion and also will be reinterpreted as haute cuisine.

In the UK, the Malê - who by now are a cultural rather than an ethnic group, including many people who aren't descended from the original Brazilian freedmen - will bring influences from two places. The first is Brazil, and specifically Bahia - there are feijoada joints in Chatham and the East End of London by now, along with traditional foods like fried bean paste mixed with fish or vegetables. The second is *Nigeria, which means pepper on nearly everything, widespread use of groundnuts (peanuts), and starchy mushes like fufu (mashed cassava or yam) or egusi (melon seeds) which are typically served with soup. I've had both in Nigeria and they're excellent if you don't mind some heat.

HaJx1Go.jpg


Egusi with leaves and chicken


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Fufu with groundnut soup and goat

here will, of course, have to be considerable substitution of ingredients, because imported African staples will be expensive. They'll use seeds from temperate melons like canteloupe in place of egusi, and they'll make "fufu" with spiced local cereals. A neighborhood place in the African part of Chatham might serve wheat cereal or oatmeal, heated up with spices and cooked to a thicker consistency than the British would prefer (so that it can be picked up and dipped in the soup) and served with a thick peanut soup and chicken or beef.

Unfortunately, palm wine won't translate, both because it spoils too quickly to be imported and because most of the Africans in the UK are Muslim.

Another field where Africa (and India) will have an impact is fashion. I've mentioned this on occasion - African prints or sari-inspired designs being in style one year, or society women wearing turbans in place of hats. That sort of thing comes and goes - West African patterns could be in one year, out the next - but the gele (West African patterned head-scarf) will become a permanent part of European women's fashion, to be worn as an option in any place where a hat would be appropriate. As time goes by and more Africans join the Paris fashion houses, patterns inspired by their fabrics will also find a more permanent place.

Film: As you say, it's an embryonic industry now, and it's been interrupted by the war, but the roots are certainly there and it will take off afterward. I'm not sure the inventors of moving pictures in TTL will have a name as appropriate as Lumière, but film industries will develop in France and Britain as well as the German-speaking world and the United States. In France, where West African stories are already part of the literary tradition, I'd expect them to find their way into movies - often in a somewhat patronizing way, like early films of Arabian sheiks in OTL, but also with more sophistication where the filmmaker is African or has direct experience with Africa. A few of these movies may feature in the 1900-10 update cycle.

Finally, and on a radically different subject, there are only about eight hours left to vote in the Superlatives. It was all tied up yesterday morning, after which Malê Rising fell behind again by three, but it's now back to a one-vote margin with The Bloody Man ahead 72-71. One vote ties it up, which I think might be the most satisfying conclusion to all this - EdT deserves every vote he has, and I'd be very happy to share the laurels.
 
Very cool. Thank you for going into detail, as well. It's always really interesting to see how immigrants can seriously affect the landscape of a country, and as an immigrant myself, you can clearly see it where I live. The film industry is of interest because I believe WWI is where France lost its dominance to the United States, and I'm not so sure it would happen here. True, the English-speaking world will likely catch up, simply because more important markets are English, but I would imagine French propaganda could help boost the industry to the point where it surpasses OTL....at least a little. In any case, I'm really excited for what happens in the next year of the Great War.

On the question of cuisine, will there be two "parallels" of the same dish, in the case of one dish being for the white Englishman, and the other for the immigrant, à la butter chicken vs chicken tikka masala?
 
Jonathan. Your knowledge about Africa is impressive, but... I mean, you're quite obviously Jewish, and since I don't think that there are many Jews in Africa with the surname "Edelstein", what is the origin of your passion for African culture and history? I don't think that you simply woke up one day and thought "fuck, let's do some justice to everything and everyone south of the Sahara".
 
Jonathan. Your knowledge about Africa is impressive, but... I mean, you're quite obviously Jewish, and since I don't think that there are many Jews in Africa with the surname "Edelstein", what is the origin of your passion for African culture and history? I don't think that you simply woke up one day and thought "fuck, let's do some justice to everything and everyone south of the Sahara".
Why not?:D:p
 

Hnau

Banned
Jonathan. Your knowledge about Africa is impressive, but... I mean, you're quite obviously Jewish, and since I don't think that there are many Jews in Africa with the surname "Edelstein", what is the origin of your passion for African culture and history? I don't think that you simply woke up one day and thought "fuck, let's do some justice to everything and everyone south of the Sahara".

Hmmm and you got kicked right after saying this...
 
Hmmm and you got kicked right after saying this...

Obviously not for that post, though.

Concerning the regional food mentioned above, I am always frustrated at how hard it is to find regional vegetarian food. I know the reasons, of course - It's hard, at times, to create a rounded vegetarian diet with only local products and no knowledge of how nutrition actually works, which describes the situation for just about everyone prior to modern times - yet it makes one a bit envious, seeing all the things one can't try.

Looking, as a result of that post, at Nigerian food in particular, but also just considering the remainder of the nationalities upon which you've touched in TTL (Or, indeed, any whose cuisine you find fascinating), is there anything you can recommend for someone who'd like to try things out without, uh, going against what they actually want to eat? Looking at the Wikipedia page, I already sorta wanna try some draw soup and fufu (Though heavens know I'll probably mess up making it myself, and there's certainly nowhere in Denmark where I can get it), but is there anything else you'd say is worth taking a look at?
 
Very cool. Thank you for going into detail, as well. It's always really interesting to see how immigrants can seriously affect the landscape of a country, and as an immigrant myself, you can clearly see it where I live.

I live in a city which has been defined by immigration pretty much since its foundation, and I definitely agree.

Food is always the first thing to cross over, too. You don't need to speak the language or adopt another religion to enjoy someone else's food; all you need is to be hungry and have a rudimentary sense of adventure. Granted, tastes in the 1890s weren't as cosmopolitan as today, but both London and Paris are imperial capitals. The first Indian restaurant in London opened in 1809, for heaven's sake, so there'd be room for Englishmen to eat Malê cuisine, especially since peanuts (which are heavily featured) have proven crossover appeal.

The film industry is of interest because I believe WWI is where France lost its dominance to the United States, and I'm not so sure it would happen here. True, the English-speaking world will likely catch up, simply because more important markets are English, but I would imagine French propaganda could help boost the industry to the point where it surpasses OTL...

I'd expect the dynamic to be different in TTL. In OTL, both France and the United States had nascent film industries, and the United States was able to get ahead because the war interrupted the French industry. Here, the film industry won't come into being at all until after the war, so France and America will start on an even footing. There might actually be several parallel start-up industries in France, Britain, the United States, the German-speaking world and possibly even Russia, all of which have the potential for African involvement.

On the question of cuisine, will there be two "parallels" of the same dish, in the case of one dish being for the white Englishman, and the other for the immigrant, à la butter chicken vs chicken tikka masala?

Most certainly. Nigerians are fond of their pepper, and even the most cosmopolitan Englishman in the 1890s would probably want the food toned down.

That actually brings to mind another food the Malê might bring with them: suya, or meat rubbed in a peanut-pepper-spice mix and grilled on a skewer. This is a northern Nigerian specialty - an obvious Arab import with a local twist - and the Malê who are of Fulani or Hausa heritage will consider it home cooking. It will cross over fast, because it will be sold as street food. But the people who sell lunch to the Chatham shipyard workers will learn very quickly that they need to make some without the pepper for the British customers.

Jonathan. Your knowledge about Africa is impressive, but... I mean, you're quite obviously Jewish, and since I don't think that there are many Jews in Africa with the surname "Edelstein", what is the origin of your passion for African culture and history? I don't think that you simply woke up one day and thought "fuck, let's do some justice to everything and everyone south of the Sahara".

Is it so strange that I'm interested in knowing who I share a planet with? But it's a long story - twenty years long.

Between 1993 and 1998, I lived in the Pelham Parkway area of the Bronx, which has a substantial West African community, and I got to know several Nigerians there and was introduced to Fela Kuti and King Sunny Ade. In 1995, I worked on an international fraud case that required me to study Nigerian history and society in depth, and I was fascinated by the interplay between tradition and modernity, and between the various indigenous cultures and the legacy of colonialism. After that, I was pretty much hooked. I've done a great deal of reading for pleasure; I've done occasional professional work relating to Africa, a (very slight) bit of which is classified; and I've traveled there. Also, I sit across a desk every day from a member of Yoruba royalty, whose family I have included in the timeline. I'd hope that's reason enough.

Looking, as a result of that post, at Nigerian food in particular, but also just considering the remainder of the nationalities upon which you've touched in TTL (Or, indeed, any whose cuisine you find fascinating), is there anything you can recommend for someone who'd like to try things out without, uh, going against what they actually want to eat?

The starch is the centerpiece in many West African dishes, so it's easy to make them without the meat. The fufu and peanut soup combination works just as well with root vegetables as with meat, and it's also possible to make a meatless egusi. Moin-moin, which is a bean paste with vegetables, and akara, or deep-fried black-eyed pea balls, can also be done on a vegetarian basis. Remember that most Africans historically couldn't afford to eat meat very often, so meatless dishes might actually be considered the norm.

All tied up now with two and a half hours left, so if you vote, vote for both.
 
The poll ends in a little over an hour and currently... You are in the lead!

Oh and I find the Great War ITTL very interesting. Though as previously pointed out I expect internal troubles to shake up Baden and Würrtemberg. Both countries were to various degrees connected to Prussia due to royal marriages and economic relationships. Considering that the Great War will most likely be a BOG victory I'm sure that those two will join (North) Germany. If for some reason the FAR alliance wins, then I see revolutions in the region.

Also my speculation regarding Belgium: pro-FAR neutrality, maybe even allowing transit of French troops in exchange for a slice of the North German colonial empire, which will probably not pay off.
 
You work across the desk from Yoruba royalty? Cool! BTW- is said family the Ooni of Yefe (the leader of the Confederation)?
 
Oh and I find the Great War ITTL very interesting. Though as previously pointed out I expect internal troubles to shake up Baden and Würrtemberg. Both countries were to various degrees connected to Prussia due to royal marriages and economic relationships. Considering that the Great War will most likely be a BOG victory I'm sure that those two will join (North) Germany. If for some reason the FAR alliance wins, then I see revolutions in the region.

As I said to Faeelin upthread, I agree that Baden and Württemberg will be tense - their rulers haven't handled the pan-Germanist movement as badly as the Wittelsbachs, but there's still a major divide between their interests and those of the people. For the time being, with the FARs on the offensive and Franco-Austrian troops in the major cities and rail junctions, the dissent is muted, but if the war starts turning against the FARs, all bets are off.

They'll certainly join North Germany (or the German Empire, as it would then be) if the BOGs win - Wilhelm won't settle for anything less, although he might give them generous terms.

Also my speculation regarding Belgium: pro-FAR neutrality, maybe even allowing transit of French troops in exchange for a slice of the North German colonial empire, which will probably not pay off.

France would certainly be willing to offer that price in exchange for transit rights. The sticking point for the Belgians is that, if they enter into a transit agreement, the NDB might treat them as fully belligerent - and that if the French offensive fails and the French army has to retreat across Belgian soil, the North German troops will pursue them. France may be able to overcome these objections, especially if the king and the Catholic party can be brought on-side, but it will have to convince the Belgians that its plan is likely to succeed, and possibly increase their offer.

You work across the desk from Yoruba royalty? Cool! BTW- is said family the Ooni of Yefe (the leader of the Confederation)?

Yes, my associate is a niece of the current Ooni of Ife - she's the one whose wedding I attended in Lagos last year. Usman Abacar married into the family.

Also, now that the polls are closed, thanks again to everyone who voted for me for Best Timeline - it's a remarkable honor. And congratulations to EdT, who beat out Paulo Abacar in the Best Feature category.
 
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Is it so strange that I'm interested in knowing who I share a planet with? But it's a long story - twenty years long.

Between 1993 and 1998, I lived in the Pelham Parkway area of the Bronx, which has a substantial West African community, and I got to know several Nigerians there and was introduced to Fela Kuti and King Sunny Ade. In 1995, I worked on an international fraud case that required me to study Nigerian history and society in depth, and I was fascinated by the interplay between tradition and modernity, and between the various indigenous cultures and the legacy of colonialism. After that, I was pretty much hooked. I've done a great deal of reading for pleasure; I've done occasional professional work relating to Africa, a (very slight) bit of which is classified; and I've traveled there. Also, I sit across a desk every day from a member of Yoruba royalty, whose family I have included in the timeline. I'd hope that's reason enough.

You know, up until this post, you were the only person I knew with actual experience of Nigeria who had not made some reference to frauds or scams. I had been finding it quite refreshing.

Is it really a thing? I'd been assuming it was just a stereotype coming out of those email scams.
 
Congrats on your Turtledove victory and making AH.com finally appreciate the beauty of Africa instead of what European empire will claim the Congo:D.

I was hoping to eventually do the same with my own goofy TL, but still need to do a lot of research.
 
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