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  1. John Spangler A man of wealth and taste

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2013
    Location:
    Somewhere in Southern Italy
    It's chapters like this that make me wish I lived in this TL.
     
  2. Jonathan Edelstein Rooted Cosmopolitan

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2009
    Location:
    Kew Gardens, NY
    Part of what you see in this post is particular to Alaska, part more general to the United States.

    The Anchorage-centered Alaska of OTL is highly contingent - Anchorage has no natural harbor, wasn't a significant settlement before the twentieth century, and grew because it was a WW1-era railroad construction hub. ITTL, Anchorage was never built, so rather than being centered on one large city, the Alaskan population outside the mining and oil settlements is concentrated in the smaller coastal cities and towns that date from the Russian period. This in turn means that there's more continuity with the mixed Russian-Native culture of that period (the Native component ranging from Haida at one end to Aleut on the other), and although annexation, mining and commercial fishing have brought in Anglo and Asian overlays, continued Russian immigration during the 20th and 21st centuries has kept the Russian-Native element at the forefront and given state politics a narodnik cast. The exceptions are the mining and oil towns, which are more Anglo-Native, and the remote interior which is almost entirely Native or parkland subject to customary rights.

    More generally, the United States of TTL is one where the flow of immigration was never interrupted (although it had its ups and downs), where the WW1-period crackdown on multilingualism, and where Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism entered the cultural mainstream much earlier. The result was that more cultural pluralism was baked into the cake, and that despite mobility and mass-media leveling, a lot more regional particularism remained. Go to California, Utah, South Carolina, Vermont, and you'll find some very different cultural attitudes and expectations. Also, the United States is an older country in 2100 than today, and there has been more time for regions to speciate, especially in a world that thinks more in terms of regions and communities than nation-states - the US is still one of the main dissenters from post-Westphalian politics, but post-Westphalian culture doesn't stop at the border.

    As I've said before, the future grows out of its past - in any future that arises from a present reasonably close to ours, there are likely to be parallel technological advances, but how we respond to those advances will depend on our cultures and politics. I could see a scenario similar to this playing out IOTL - symbiotic methane-reducing organisms do exist in ocean-floor cold seeps (I heard a lecture on them about a week ago), methanotrophic microbes in Arctic lake beds are being studied right now, and the idea of a biological solution to part of the climate crisis seems like a natural one. But our systems of government, research and education, and the attitudes that go into them, will determine whether we investigate that approach and, if so, how. TTL's attitudes and systems are different from ours.

    At this point, they've gone beyond editing to outright fabrication of genetic codes, and now to coding media other than DNA. Thus far most of the controversy has centered on the uses of genetically engineered life; now, it's likely to become more existential.

    Ilorin is at the far end of the Islamic world's attitudes toward these things, but it isn't outside the Islamic mainstream - on the one hand, the fact that Ilorin became a life-science center in the early 20th century means that its imams were the first to grapple with related issues and that their opinions became influential on their colleagues elsewhere, and on the other hand, the Ilorin ulema is always careful to consult with authorities outside Ilorin in developing its jurisprudence. Ilorin's approach to life-science development is much like the Consistory's (and in fact was the model for the Consistory's) - a lot of money and resources dedicated to promoting innovation, but new discoveries are vetted from nearly every possible ethical angle before being put into use.

    In Russia, the narodnik ethos still prevails, and the emphasis is on community and continuity: they don't oppose genetic engineering as such, but it's important to them that life forms have ancestors and descendants and that they fit into the overall mosaic of the biosphere. They're fine with curative editing (nearly everyone is) or high-yield crops, but they don't care for transhumanism or for life forms being developed as tools. And South America - you'll notice that Potosí is one of the places where our narrator studied, and with Bolivia as one of the early participants in the Green Revolution (see post 5897), it tends t be more open to creative genetics than most places. OTOH, Bolivia is as much on the far end of the Catholic world as Ilorin is in the Islamic.

    The main timeline ended in 2015, but I've occasionally added stories since then. The Malêverse 2100 stories are by request and are non-canonical - I consider them one of TTL's possible futures.

    Thank you! On the other hand, who knows what we might be doing IOTL by 2100?
     
  3. 245 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2015
    what was streaming like in this timeline? and what would be this world reaction to otl? and also can you do a short update on anime, I remember you saying that anime in this timeline might be crated in the ottomon empire and it would be great to learn more about that.
     
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  4. Goldenarchangel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2016
  5. Al-numbers Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2013
    Location:
    Between Gensokyo and Berk
    It's now unbroken! Seems the recent update somewhat borked the page into not showing the installments.

    I also added the lastest piece, though I have no clue exactly where it's set.
     
  6. Jonathan Edelstein Rooted Cosmopolitan

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2009
    Location:
    Kew Gardens, NY
    Thank you! It takes place here.
     
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  7. Al-numbers Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2013
    Location:
    Between Gensokyo and Berk
    No, thank you! Added it.
     
  8. Jonathan Edelstein Rooted Cosmopolitan

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2009
    Location:
    Kew Gardens, NY
    I've written another Malêverse 2100 story called Caretakers, set in Salt Lake City and rural Washington. I posted it in the Writers' Forum rather than here, because I will very likely revise it for submission - it's the first thing I've written in months that I actually think is good.

    I'd prefer, however - although I can't require - that comments on the story be posted in this thread.

    Thanks to @Zioneer, and at an earlier stage @Hnau, for helping me think through the LDS elements of the story.
     
  9. Al-numbers Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2013
    Location:
    Between Gensokyo and Berk
    The story was... nostalgic, in a strange way. There's a feeling of loss that reminds me of my grandparents and their passing, but also one of community and moving on.
     
  10. Jonathan Edelstein Rooted Cosmopolitan

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2009
    Location:
    Kew Gardens, NY
    I suspect there will be a lot of that kind of moving on. When we first started discussing TTL's future, I mentioned that the Malêverse of eighty years from now would be much more of an aging society than today - probably even more than OTL in 2100, given that the demographic shift finished sooner - and that the search for meaningful work would be filled partly by caretaking. So the communities of 2100, and even the idea of community, would be more focused on the needs of old age and will have a lot of experience dealing with loss and giving meaning to it.
     
  11. Zioneer Relief Society Bene Gesserit

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2009
    Location:
    Red Deseret
    I'm extremely happy with that update; it's nostalgic but sweet, very wistful.

    And @Jonathan Edelstein You captured the aesthetic of Mormonism perfectly, thank you so much for your questions and care in that topic!
     
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  12. AmericaninBeijing Not Particularly Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2016
    @Jonathan Edelstein

    Beautiful story, and another window into the world. If we end up in half as optimistic a place in 2100, I’ll be pleasantly surprised.

    One point; care to dig into the economic situation a bit further? Even considering inflation, the figures mentioned seem quite high; a caretaker position paying on the order of $1.2 million per year and the basic living stipend set around $100,000?
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2019
  13. Jonathan Edelstein Rooted Cosmopolitan

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2009
    Location:
    Kew Gardens, NY
    Thanks again for your time and patience in answering those questions.

    I'd mentioned that the per capita GDP(PPP) of the Malêverse in 2100 would be about $200,000 by today's standards. A $1.2-million salary would be about $240,000 in constant dollars, which is near the high end for caretaker jobs, but the job Sally took was double-time and required nanomedical skills beyond those required in most such positions. The $100,000 UBI would amount to about $20,000 today - you can live on it, especially since some necessities like health care and network access are free, but the lifestyle would be pretty basic by the standards of 2100.

    ETA: The UBI is part federal and part state, and people in states with a higher cost of living usually get a higher stipend, but it's still not a sum that allows many luxuries. A more common thing to do, for people who have limited material wants and who prefer most of their time to be their own, is to supplement the UBI with an 0.2 or 0.3-time job.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2019
  14. AmericaninBeijing Not Particularly Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2016
    I’d run the numbers while assuming the standard 2% inflation and gotten the same present-day value, so... fair enough. Edging in on post-scarcity territory, though with the way we’re wired to care about relative status, I’m not sure that concept really will work out.

    In any case, a pleasant world in which to live.
     
  15. Jonathan Edelstein Rooted Cosmopolitan

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2009
    Location:
    Kew Gardens, NY
    Above a certain income level, post-scarcity is a state of mind. Billionaires IOTL effectively live in a post-scarcity world, but post-greed is another story.

    The Malêverse of 2100 has democratized the concept - it's post-scarcity for those who want it to be. Those people who I've described as having "limited material wants" - the ones for whom the definition of wealth in Pirkei Avot 4:1 is a way of life - will live as if they're in a post-scarcity society, although most will still work because another thing we're hardwired for is to find meaning in what we do. You'll notice that the conflicts in the 2100 stories tend to involve the higher levels of Maslow's hierarchy of needs.

    But as you say, the majority will want the things their neighbors have and will have their eyes on the luxuries still outside their grasp. That isn't a bad thing - both groups will innovate in different ways, and ambition still drives the world - but the tensions at the higher levels of Maslow's pyramid aren't necessarily less destructive than those at the lower ones.
     
  16. AmericaninBeijing Not Particularly Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2016
    Frankly any single individual with a stable income over $100,000 PPP lives in a post-scarcity world, as Keynes originally reckoned it, but that reality doesn’t seem to have caught up with us. I’m no exception, lol.

    We’re probably stuck with some form of moderated capitalism until and unless we physically evolve past the need, but if we can muster a UBI and a reasonable balance between labor and capital, that’ll probably get us through a few more centuries until the “next big thing”.
     
  17. AmericaninBeijing Not Particularly Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2016
    One other question that slipped my mind until now; how much regional variation do you see this figure covering up? Has there been a general convergence over the past century or do some places still lag substantially behind others?
     
  18. Jonathan Edelstein Rooted Cosmopolitan

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2009
    Location:
    Kew Gardens, NY
    There's been a great deal of convergence, albeit not total. I haven't run any numbers, but my working assumption is that the richest regions of the Malêverse in 2100 have a living standard about twice as high as the poorest, as opposed to many times that in the present day.
     
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  19. Goldenarchangel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2016
    So how much of a space presence does humanity have in the 2100s
     
  20. Ramphraim New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2019
    What an amazing timeline. I'm not finished just yet but I just read the Venezuelan War update where West Indies federate as a dominion. I can only wonder what TTL's A House For Mr. Biswas looks like, and if Naipaul ends up as any less of a curmudgeon than he did IOTL.
     
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