Malê Rising

[Falecius]

As an aside, France and Germany (in some respects the leading powers at this point ITTL, we are brought to believe, or at least the most active) are not even real rivals. "Friendly competitors" may describe well what I understand to be their relationship.
Basically, I sense that after the Sino-Russian war, there are not big enmities between any given pair of major powers, although I expect German-Russian relations to be less cordial than average; rivalries still have to exist, but are there many hot flashpoints for Great Power confrontation?
So, no major power is really developing nukes out of impending security concerns, the only possible exception I can think of being Japan (who might have concerns about deterrence regarding both Russia and China).

 

[Sulemain]

I suspect that once they have detonated nuclear weapons, those powers that have them will not just build massive arsenals; they will be a small part of the national armoury, there won't be a need for an utterly huge force.

With the exception of the US, for the reasons I have stated. Another area in which the USA will stand out ITTL.

 

[Falecius]

I suspect that once they have detonated nuclear weapons, those powers that have them will not just build massive arsenals; they will be a small part of the national armoury, there won't be a need for an utterly huge force.

With the exception of the US, for the reasons I have stated. Another area in which the USA will stand out ITTL.

I'd agree. No need to plan for total destruction of the enemy, especially when you don't have a pre-defined "enemy". Take Germany: would they bother to arm themselves to threaten both France and Russia (the least unlikely enemies they'd have to fight a war with) with annihilation? I believe that planning for a nuclear confrontation with Russia or with France would entail completely different strategies (and probably different devices too). Paradoxically, more powers would mean less nukes (but possibly more nuclear powers).
However, did you say that even the US arsenal would be in the hundreds of warheads? I can't see them going anywhere near the ridiculous levels of OTL's Cold War.

 

[Sulemain]

I'd agree. No need to plan for total destruction of the enemy, especially when you don't have a pre-defined "enemy". Take Germany: would they bother to arm themselves to threaten both France and Russia (the least unlikely enemies they'd have to fight a war with) with annihilation? I believe that planning for a nuclear confrontation with Russia or with France would entail completely different strategies (and probably different devices too). Paradoxically, more powers would mean less nukes (but possibly more nuclear powers).

I suspect that at it's largest, the German arsenal will be about the size of the French one at it's height. The SSBNs for global duty, while the IRBMs and Bombers are pointed Eastwards.

However, did you say that even the US arsenal would be in the hundreds of warheads? I can't see them going anywhere near the ridiculous levels of OTL's Cold War.

I suspect the size of the arsenal will be about half what it is now, meaning ITTL: 2500 warheads. After all, TTL's US military is alot smaller and alot more specialised. I suspect that Germany and the US would have TTL's largest arsenals, with the Ottomans having the smallest, possibly around the size of the OTL UK: probably hard silos in Anatolia.

 

[Jonathan Edelstein]

It may not be called Pluto, though, although it's in many respects a very straightforward name (especially if PL is somehow involved in the discovery, which is likely, but that's not a strict requirement).

I've always thought that Charon, the name of the largest moon/binary partner (your choice), is more appropriate for the dwarf planet itself; its eccentric orbit makes it a ferry between the planetary part of the solar system and the vastness beyond. But the convention is that planets, which Pluto would be considered at the time of its discovery, were named after Roman gods, so the name Pluto would probably be chosen over that of a mere functionary like Charon.

Then again, there are other Roman deities that would be appropriate for an outer planet to be named after: Nox, for instance. I kind of like Nox.

I suspect the size of the arsenal will be about half what it is now, meaning ITTL: 2500 warheads. After all, TTL's US military is alot smaller and alot more specialised. I suspect that Germany and the US would have TTL's largest arsenals, with the Ottomans having the smallest, possibly around the size of the OTL UK: probably hard silos in Anatolia.

I assume you mean 2500 warheads in the entire world rather than 2500 in the United States arsenal; under TTL's conditions, I can't imagine any nation wanting more than two to four hundred, and many nuclear powers, possibly even a majority of them, would have nominal arsenals of no more than ten or twenty.

Regarding nuclear weapons in general, I suspect that most large powers will want at least a few. There are three reasons that occur to me offhand:

• The "just in case" principle. Sure, all the great powers get along now, and sure, the Consistory and Court of Arbitration are growing into their role as collective security bodies, but there's no guarantee that another Imperial Party or Ma Emperor might not arise in the future. If that happens, the neighbors don't want to be caught with their defenses down.

• There's also the possibility that a neighboring minor power might get its hands on a couple of warheads, either through illicit purchase or a crash program, and use them for blackmail. India, for instance, might be concerned about Persia or Siam - both of which have been in conflict with it during the twentieth century - doing this, while Ethiopia and Egypt might be wary of each other.

• The nuclear triad is a cheap (or at least cheap relative to a large standing army) way to project force over long distances - again, not something that's a major concern now, but if things go south and a distant threat materializes, nukes could come in handy as a deterrent. Also, in India's case, it might want to make sure that no enemy could ever blockade its ports again.

For those reasons, I think India would want an arsenal. It would probably be one of the token nuclear powers rather than a major one - as Badshah says, it's primarily an economic power - but it would still want the insurance that a dozen warheads would provide.

Another possible nuclear power is Mexico - again, relations with the United States are cordial now, but there's a recent enough history of conflict for it to want insurance of its own, especially since the US has detonated a fusion bomb.

I'd expect the number of nuclear powers to be more than the number of space powers, BTW; countries like Persia or Mexico could probably get more bang for the buck by being junior partners in a neighboring country's space program or international consortium, but for obvious reasons, they couldn't share nuclear arsenals.

 

[Shevek23]

Les Colombes

I have not had time to read and consider the nuclear proliferation update since going to work this morning, not yet.

After posting though, when I was rushing off to work, it occurred to me the family of rockets the French have developed for their Futurist, ostensibly peaceful and progressive venture into orbit would probably have a name; OTL rocket families tend to be named, or anyway numbered, distinctively. And of course the French patriot would seek resonance with the legacy of Jules Verne.

The rockets are after all launched, though not from Florida, anyway from the Western hemisphere.

If I recall correctly the giant cannon constructed in From The Earth to the Moon was termed "the Colombiad" by its American makers. This, I thought, would be the name of the family of rockets the French have developed for the purpose of manned launch and support of such missions.

And one of the several resonances the name has is to the French word for "dove," "la colombe." So in fact perhaps the rockets should be called "Dove" rockets, "la Série de Colombe."

The name refers directly to the peaceful intent, and punningly alludes both to the American continent they are launched from, the fictional great cannon of Verne's inspirational romance, and even to the exploratory archetype of Christopher Columbus.

I suppose by this time the French are at least somewhat sensitive to the Native American perspective on just who and what Columbus was to them and that he isn't the ideal image to present, but he's alluded to only indirectly, in an idealized form; anyway Guiana itself was not so much directly in the Spanish as in the Portuguese sphere before the French took their portion of it from them, so the dark side of Columbus is not so directly looming there; more so I suppose in the French Caribbean islands, enough that the program namers would appreciate some degree of separation from him--but in the French sphere as a whole I suppose the positive connotations would tend to dominate more so as long as they avoid idealizing the man himself the allusion goes down happily enough.

So I put forth the suggestion, that the French rockets are called the Colombe Series. I'm thinking that as with the OTL schemes for Saturn rockets, they form a family of stages and boosters that can be mixed and matched to achieve a range of payloads and missions, designed around some commonalities for economy and compatibility. One reason for the "delay" that bothered me but others see as being quite soon enough would be to design and test this series so that it delivers reliable performance before the first live launch of human cosmonautes (I was able to skim the commentary after my posts).

The post refers to the current Futurist government as being rather new, so they would not have been in power when the series was being developed, though perhaps they were strong enough in government to have been influential at the time, or the series is an initiative of other factions that are of similar enough mind on this matter at least to have had harmonious goals.

Doubtless France also has military rockets, that have more assertively menacing names. These though, like the OTL Saturns, are meant to achieve a civil mission, and that doubtless affects their design.

Just how it does I'd leave to more expert advisors than I have generally proven to be.

Nor am I much of an artist, nor have I much time to try to cobble something together tonight, but I have also imagined a nice logo for the program:

Over a stylized view of half a disk or so of Earth, that is centered so French Guiana is recognizable in the left lower corner, French Africa from Senegal to Algeria with the Arab Kingdom in the middle along with the rest of West Africa, the western Sahara and Mediterranean Africa occupies the lower right, with France more or less centered but shifted far to the north by the perspective to give a roughly equilateral role to each, from Guiana a stylized rocket "trail" in silvery-white arcs gracefully above the globe into sky-blue space; at the apex in the upper right is the stylized white dove, wings thrown back in rapid flight with a wind-bent olive branch in its sharp and forward-probing beak; from that beak stylized shock waves frame the bird in a rakish triangular but open space.

OK, looking at G.Projector, it seems no accurate map of Earth can get quite that, but if we look down at Earth from three times Earth's radius from its center (ie, altitude one Earth diameter up from the surface) centered above 30 West, 30 north, does put Guiana in one lower corner, France about the same distance in the upper right, western Africa nicely fills the lower right quadrant, while the Caribbean shows well in the upper left; the Atlantic forms a wide frame in which to center the dove.

I haven't yet found images of a dove that satisfy me; I guess no one thinks of a dove in a hurry, let alone one pushing to reach Mach 27!

Doves are supposed to be gentle yet sort of regal in a queenly, or anyway princessy, sort of way; they are curvy not sharp and they don't hurry. I guess I need to become more of an artist to show the sort of dignified yet fast dove I'd like to place there over the ocean.

I might keep at it; who knows, i might manage to sketch it.
---
If people, especially Jonathan, like this suggestion of mine, I have another for a British Commonwealth series of parallel purpose, perhaps with a somewhat more commercial and less ostensibly Utopian focus--not such a great name for pioneering early efforts, but for a robust series designed to reliably launch payloads to orbit. I originally offered it to someone who asked for suggestions for a European program that would have such a mission, more or less like the OTL Arianes but I gather with a broader range of payload types and sizes, but it struck me a somehow a more British name than otherwise:

Argosy.

The allusion here is to medieval European trading vessels, but to the modern English-speaking world it has taken on a patina of romance due to poetry, notably Tennyson's "Locksley Hall." It has to me anyway a sound between Chaucerian and Shakespearian; we Yanks would be a bit boorish to try to appropriate it!

I'm not sure if Tennyson, or anyway that particular poem, would have been strongly butterflied so that particular allusion would be lost ITTL; my feeling is no, he'd write a similar enough poem here too.

"Argosy" also contains the word "Argo;" the apparent connection is technically false since "argosy" derives from "Ragusa," an English name for the Italian trading ships, but the false connection to Jason's Argonauts probably gives the word extra poetic resonance.

So I think it's a good name for a program that is ostensibly about making money soundly, with no nonsense, but is in fact motivated in part by the romance of the space mission--ostensible common sense but with poetic license.

So I was rather disappointed this offer was turned down in the TL that solicited the advice, but I think maybe now if the Commonwealth decides to support a shared program of their own rather than simply offer to back up the French play, or to fill a niche the French or German rockets coming up soon won't cover ideally, the name might have found an appropriate home, indeed more so than the one I hoped to see it placed in, here.

 

[Falecius]

I've always thought that Charon, the name of the largest moon/binary partner (your choice), is more appropriate for the dwarf planet itself; its eccentric orbit makes it a ferry between the planetary part of the solar system and the vastness beyond. But the convention is that planets, which Pluto would be considered at the time of its discovery, were named after Roman gods, so the name Pluto would probably be chosen over that of a mere functionary like Charon.

Then again, there are other Roman deities that would be appropriate for an outer planet to be named after: Nox, for instance. I kind of like Nox.

Charon is admittedly unlikely, especially in the considered timeframe. Not sure about when the convention for naming planets after Roman gods entered in place. Both Uranus and Pallas (then considered a planet) are named after Greek deities without a clear Roman match (although the spellings are Romanized), and for a long time in SF, "Persephone" (Greek form) was the default name for a hypothetical tenth planet.
The point about Pluto, however, is that it could be said to complete a mythological series: sky (Uranus) water (Neptune) underworld (Pluto). Moreover, it is a meaningful complementary for Neptune (thanks to geologists, the two went somewhat in pair).
"Nox" is very apt, but somehow I don't see it readily used. The primary association is the common Latin word for "night" rather than the (literally obscure in Roman religion as I recall it) associated deity.

EDIT: I think they'd go for a major Roman god anyway, that would make the list pretty short.

 

[Sulemain]

What JE says makes sense with regard to the size of various countries nuclear arsenals. A world of minimum deterrence rather then maximum deterrence.

 

[Julius Vogel]

Nor am I much of an artist, nor have I much time to try to cobble something together tonight, but I have also imagined a nice logo for the program:

Over a stylized view of half a disk or so of Earth, that is centered so French Guiana is recognizable in the left lower corner, French Africa from Senegal to Algeria with the Arab Kingdom in the middle along with the rest of West Africa, the western Sahara and Mediterranean Africa occupies the lower right, with France more or less centered but shifted far to the north by the perspective to give a roughly equilateral role to each, from Guiana a stylized rocket "trail" in silvery-white arcs gracefully above the globe into sky-blue space; at the apex in the upper right is the stylized white dove, wings thrown back in rapid flight with a wind-bent olive branch in its sharp and forward-probing beak; from that beak stylized shock waves frame the bird in a rakish triangular but open space.

OK, looking at G.Projector, it seems no accurate map of Earth can get quite that, but if we look down at Earth from three times Earth's radius from its center (ie, altitude one Earth diameter up from the surface) centered above 30 West, 30 north, does put Guiana in one lower corner, France about the same distance in the upper right, western Africa nicely fills the lower right quadrant, while the Caribbean shows well in the upper left; the Atlantic forms a wide frame in which to center the dove.

I haven't yet found images of a dove that satisfy me; I guess no one thinks of a dove in a hurry, let alone one pushing to reach Mach 27!

Doves are supposed to be gentle yet sort of regal in a queenly, or anyway princessy, sort of way; they are curvy not sharp and they don't hurry. I guess I need to become more of an artist to show the sort of dignified yet fast dove I'd like to place there over the ocean.

I might keep at it; who knows, i might manage to sketch it.
---
If people, especially Jonathan, like this suggestion of mine, I have another for a British Commonwealth series of parallel purpose, perhaps with a somewhat more commercial and less ostensibly Utopian focus--not such a great name for pioneering early efforts, but for a robust series designed to reliably launch payloads to orbit. I originally offered it to someone who asked for suggestions for a European program that would have such a mission, more or less like the OTL Arianes but I gather with a broader range of payload types and sizes, but it struck me a somehow a more British name than otherwise:

Argosy.

The allusion here is to medieval European trading vessels, but to the modern English-speaking world it has taken on a patina of romance due to poetry, notably Tennyson's "Locksley Hall." It has to me anyway a sound between Chaucerian and Shakespearian; we Yanks would be a bit boorish to try to appropriate it!

I'm not sure if Tennyson, or anyway that particular poem, would have been strongly butterflied so that particular allusion would be lost ITTL; my feeling is no, he'd write a similar enough poem here too.

"Argosy" also contains the word "Argo;" the apparent connection is technically false since "argosy" derives from "Ragusa," an English name for the Italian trading ships, but the false connection to Jason's Argonauts probably gives the word extra poetic resonance.

So I think it's a good name for a program that is ostensibly about making money soundly, with no nonsense, but is in fact motivated in part by the romance of the space mission--ostensible common sense but with poetic license.

I do like this timeline rather a lot some time, if just for the whimsy that contributors show!

 

[Workable Goblin]

I assume you mean 2500 warheads in the entire world rather than 2500 in the United States arsenal; under TTL's conditions, I can't imagine any nation wanting more than two to four hundred, and many nuclear powers, possibly even a majority of them, would have nominal arsenals of no more than ten or twenty.

I would think somewhat larger; 10 to 20 warheads leaves you rather vulnerable to a first strike compared to, say, 100 or so. Aside from North Korea, most powers IOTL seem to have settled on about 100-400 as a reasonable range, depending on their particular security situation.

 

[Jonathan Edelstein]

After posting though, when I was rushing off to work, it occurred to me the family of rockets the French have developed for their Futurist, ostensibly peaceful and progressive venture into orbit would probably have a name; OTL rocket families tend to be named, or anyway numbered, distinctively. And of course the French patriot would seek resonance with the legacy of Jules Verne.

I like both your proposed names a great deal. It's been mentioned that the French capsule was named Jules Verne; presumably Colombe would be the name of the mission series and launch vehicle. It's also politically plausible; the Futurists are nearly always part of the coalition even when they aren't leading it, and space exploration would be one of their particular bailiwicks.

Argosy is perfect for the British mission series. I was imagining that the first capsule might be called Arrow of Desire, but that's probably too whimsical, and also too Anglocentric as opposed to having Commonwealth-wide significance. Maybe Victoria instead.

Not sure about when the convention for naming planets after Roman gods entered in place. Both Uranus and Pallas (then considered a planet) are named after Greek deities without a clear Roman match (although the spellings are Romanized), and for a long time in SF, "Persephone" (Greek form) was the default name for a hypothetical tenth planet.

Fair enough; I should have said "Greco-Roman deities, nearly always spelled the Roman way." (Did non-historians even distinguish between Greek and Roman mythology at that time?)

Anyway, you're probably right about Charon and Nox - and also Orcus, more's the pity. I wonder, though, if Persephone might work for the (supposed) ninth planet rather than the tenth. Again, orbital eccentricity would make the name appropriate: part of its year is spent in the realm of the planets, and part is spent in the solar system's distant underworld.

I would think somewhat larger; 10 to 20 warheads leaves you rather vulnerable to a first strike compared to, say, 100 or so. Aside from North Korea, most powers IOTL seem to have settled on about 100-400 as a reasonable range, depending on their particular security situation.

True; I thought India and Pakistan had fewer IOTL, but I see both are in the 100 range. There are ways to get around first-strike vulnerability with small arsenals - putting them on submarines, for instance - but nuclear powers ITTL, as IOTL, would still want some redundancy.

I imagine, BTW, that while TTL won't see Cold War levels of nuclear anxiety - with no superpower conflict and without single countries having multi-thousand-warhead arsenals, there won't be a sense that global annihilation is one wrong move away - such anxiety will still exist in the background and might be stimulated by the sheer number of countries with nuclear arsenals or weapons-development programs. I'd expect that nonproliferation and disarmament movements will exist, and that as more countries join the club, there will be a push from several directions for international regulation.

 

[Sulemain]

With regard to size of the nuclear arsenal, I'd say the two largest ITTL will probably be Germany, at around 500 warheads, and the USA, which would have around 1,000. The former is what France had at it's height, and I'm basing ITTL German nuclear forces on OTL France.

The USA will probably have the biggest arsenal due to the reasons discussed earlier regarding strategic outlook and so forth, but that's still a fifth of it's OTL 2014 size.

Of course, this will almost certainly (hopefully) remain background information ITTL.

Victoria works for the first capsule, either that or something like "Rocket 2", invoking the first steam train and such.

 

[galileo-034]

The USA are still a strongly isolationnist country and lack the motivation of a big threatening enemy.

The biggest competition would be between Russia and Germany. France could have some feud but is more cold headed and since the Great War, relations are rather cordial and the competition is a gentle one.
There is also China who would surely come after the USA, the last war with Russia being a strong motivation.

 

[Falecius]

Fair enough; I should have said "Greco-Roman deities, nearly always spelled the Roman way." (Did non-historians even distinguish between Greek and Roman mythology at that time?)

Anyway, you're probably right about Charon and Nox - and also Orcus, more's the pity. I wonder, though, if Persephone might work for the (supposed) ninth planet rather than the tenth. Again, orbital eccentricity would make the name appropriate: part of its year is spent in the realm of the planets, and part is spent in the solar system's distant underworld.

Astronomers did. They already needed names. . Persephone is more of a possibility, esp. if ITTL the full planetary status of *Pluto is in doubt from the start (due to orbital eccentricity and/or earlier *Kuiper Belt theorization). This based on the fact that "planets" named after female deities got "demoted" (Ceres, Vesta, Pallas and Iuno) and since then, female names had become commonplace (I guess both IOTL and TTL) for main belt asteroids (while eccentric asteroids usually take male names). Of course, Venus is an unquestionable planet named after a goddess, but it is the only one, and the name, needless to say, is very ancient.

EDIT: by the way, this means that the use of a female name for the "ninth planet" would fit very well the spirit of this TL. Although I am afraid that some would have already used it for an asteroid.

 

[Analytical Engine]

Because I've been looking into this for my TL, what's the status of the *Temperance movement ITTL? Have any countries banned alcohol, only to have it un-banned later, but with strong controls, etc?

 

[Jord839]

Because I've been looking into this for my TL, what's the status of the *Temperance movement ITTL? Have any countries banned alcohol, only to have it un-banned later, but with strong controls, etc?

From our discussions on the US, I'm assuming that the US has not been able to do so federally. The stronger German (and to an extent, Italian/Irish in the NE) presence will remain an extremely powerful special interest opposing it in the North, though temperance movements will still be around and may push for earlier and more severe punishments for public drunkenness/OWI situations to make up the difference.

However, I think that there will be decent portions of the US that do commit to temperance and, absent a massive shock like the Great Depression, may very well stick to it for longer. The South, in particular, with its strong Evangelical and noticeable Muslim presence will likely be one of the areas with the most dry counties and states. Utah will certainly do so, and a few of the most WASPy areas in New England may do so on a municipal level as per OTL. I don't imagine the Southwest will do so, but the Great Plains and the West Coast are up in the air.

Othyrsyde, or anyone familiar really, do you think that issues of alcoholism will continue being so strong on some Reservations? If so, I could see a mix of evangelical and native interests turning to temperance movements in counties and states in the West.

Beyond the US, I imagine that most of North Africa probably has some level of temperance due to relative lack of invasive influence from their colonial overlords. A few places in the South that are severely disrupted by changing social mores(Copperbelt, Congo) might have local decisions to do so and limit the damage excessive alcoholism may be causing.

At the same time, none of the countries that remain in direct control or close relation with African countries are particularly known for strong temperance movements, and though less invasive, the closer personal and cultural relationship between the nations may have allowed alcohol to become more acceptable in areas where it was fought against as cultural invasion IOTL.

I don't dare speculate on Asia, India, or the Pacific, however.

 

[Falecius]

From our discussions on the US, I'm assuming that the US has not been able to do so federally. The stronger German (and to an extent, Italian/Irish in the NE) presence will remain an extremely powerful special interest opposing it in the North, though temperance movements will still be around and may push for earlier and more severe punishments for public drunkenness/OWI situations to make up the difference.

However, I think that there will be decent portions of the US that do commit to temperance and, absent a massive shock like the Great Depression, may very well stick to it for longer. The South, in particular, with its strong Evangelical and noticeable Muslim presence will likely be one of the areas with the most dry counties and states. Utah will certainly do so, and a few of the most WASPy areas in New England may do so on a municipal level as per OTL. I don't imagine the Southwest will do so, but the Great Plains and the West Coast are up in the air.

Othyrsyde, or anyone familiar really, do you think that issues of alcoholism will continue being so strong on some Reservations? If so, I could see a mix of evangelical and native interests turning to temperance movements in counties and states in the West.

Beyond the US, I imagine that most of North Africa probably has some level of temperance due to relative lack of invasive influence from their colonial overlords. A few places in the South that are severely disrupted by changing social mores(Copperbelt, Congo) might have local decisions to do so and limit the damage excessive alcoholism may be causing.

At the same time, none of the countries that remain in direct control or close relation with African countries are particularly known for strong temperance movements, and though less invasive, the closer personal and cultural relationship between the nations may have allowed alcohol to become more acceptable in areas where it was fought against as cultural invasion IOTL.

I don't dare speculate on Asia, India, or the Pacific, however.

Regarding the Muslim world at large, I think that alcohol, while obviously still entirely unacceptable to religion, would not be considered as severely as IOTL. The argument is that there is much less widely influential rigorist/legalist trend as a response to the Western/Modernity challenge, which Muslim cultures ITTL are able to respond to on a much more equal basis in general. To the rigorist trends of IOTL, alcohol is a major point to fight against for identity reasons (there are other factors), which I see as less significant ITTL.
Of course, this would have never counted as a "Temperance" movement comparable to the US one to begin with, since alcohol was, and will clearly remain, sinful from the start.
However, the sort of wink-and-nod social semi-tolerance drinking appears to have had in large part of pre-Modern Islam is likely to be less affected.

 

[Jonathan Edelstein]

With regard to size of the nuclear arsenal, I'd say the two largest ITTL will probably be Germany, at around 500 warheads, and the USA, which would have around 1,000. The former is what France had at it's height, and I'm basing ITTL German nuclear forces on OTL France.

The USA are still a strongly isolationnist country and lack the motivation of a big threatening enemy.

I'm with Galileo on this one - the United States' goal is to protect its neutrality and have a combined naval-nuclear defense against distant threats rather than to project power or wage a cold war against a rival nuclear-armed superpower, so it would have no need for 1000 warheads. It would be more likely to have the kind of stockpile that Britain and France have IOTL or that Germany, Russia and China do ITTL.

This will be background information, though, so I'll leave it at that for the time being.

EDIT: by the way, this means that the use of a female name for the "ninth planet" would fit very well the spirit of this TL. Although I am afraid that some would have already used it for an asteroid.

It's easy enough for that asteroid to be given a different name or not discovered ITTL. That way, Pluto can be Persephone - maybe the discoverer ITTL is a woman - and later on, the Kuiper Belt can be named after Pluto, or possibly Hades. The Hadean Belt - I kind of like that.

Because I've been looking into this for my TL, what's the status of the *Temperance movement ITTL? Have any countries banned alcohol, only to have it un-banned later, but with strong controls, etc?

From our discussions on the US, I'm assuming that the US has not been able to do so federally... However, I think that there will be decent portions of the US that do commit to temperance and, absent a massive shock like the Great Depression, may very well stick to it for longer.

Jord839 has it right with respect to the United States. Prohibition never took off at the federal level - too much rum, Romanism and rebellion in the major parties for the Progressives to get their way - but a number of states are dry. There's a thriving interstate alcohol smuggling trade, BTW, that works more or less like cigarette-tax smuggling IOTL.

A few places in the South that are severely disrupted by changing social mores(Copperbelt, Congo) might have local decisions to do so and limit the damage excessive alcoholism may be causing.

The Congo, maybe - it's the kind of thing that do-gooder international administrators might try, especially if the local elites are on board. I'm not so sure about the Copperbelt, given that alcohol is fairly important to local culture and that neither German nor Portuguese influence is likely to lead toward temperance. The Copperbelt countries might regulate alcohol (for instance, cities and towns might prohibit public consumption), but I doubt they'd try to ban it.

Samuel's Kingdom, on the other hand, would be dry, as might some of the other Great Lakes commonwealths that were influenced by missionary religion, such as Ankole with its Carlsenist Christianity.

I don't dare speculate on Asia, India, or the Pacific, however.

In the Pacific, the islands most strongly influenced by missionaries would be most likely to be dry, although smuggling would be a problem as it is IOTL.

I also can't really say how alcohol would be viewed in Asia.

Regarding the Muslim world at large, I think that alcohol, while obviously still entirely unacceptable to religion, would not be considered as severely as IOTL. The argument is that there is much less widely influential rigorist/legalist trend as a response to the Western/Modernity challenge, which Muslim cultures ITTL are able to respond to on a much more equal basis in general.

Yeah, pretty much, although it might come up for debate every time the countries in question overhaul their penal codes. As you say, alcohol consumption would still be against religious law, but it would be broadly tolerated.

 

[Al-numbers]

I just had a funny thought while doing my college work this morning; with all the talk on international organizations going around, I wonder if there would be an aboriginal/native/ethnic international boat-racing competition?

This mainly stems from researching for my TL; apparently back in 1872, Charles Brooke of Sarawak inaugurated the Sarawak Regatta, a boat-racing competition held every year wherein Malays and native Dayaks compete to win prizes. It was hoped that the event would foster cooperation and ratchet down tensions between all the different native and ethnic groups, and it is still held in Sarawak today.

ITTL, with there being Dayaks in German New Guinea, I can see the Sarawak government going to court them to compete, and the lowland and riverine peoples began joining in the event as guests. As time passed, word of the Regatta grew and by the 1860s it becomes an international event (or at least a regional one) event wherein countries would send native teams to Kuching or the Rajang Basin to compete - or alternatively, the natives and ethnic groups pool their resources and go there by themselves. There might even be Hawaii and Kamerun joining in as guests from time to time.

Besides that, I wonder if the international teams can use the Regatta to highlight the problems they have back at home... it's unknown territory, but it is interesting to contemplate.

It's easy enough for that asteroid to be given a different name or not discovered ITTL. That way, Pluto can be Persephone - maybe the discoverer ITTL is a woman - and later on, the Kuiper Belt can be named after Pluto, or possibly Hades. The Hadean Belt - I kind of like that.

That's sounds awesome.

 

[Sulemain]

Hadean Belt does sound rather awesome