Malê Rising
- Thread starter Jonathan Edelstein
- Start date
I wish my writing was half as good as yours JE, then it'd be three times as good as mine!!
Speaking of which, what happened to the Tasmanian Aborigines ITTL? Most of what I know about them comes from English Passengers, which is a very good book.
And has any country got universal female and male suffrage by this point? I think New Zealand did in OTL.
Ilorin has universal suffrage, as apparently does South Carolina and probably at least couple of other places (Scandinavia?). I'd be surprised if Russia doesn't by 1910. I don't remember about France but I guess she's still with universal male franchise.
Maybe, but their atl siblings, all with squints and scarification
Mind your circumflex...
No sir, the lack of such is a more amusing result !
Well, the way I see it, maybe not a world government per se but there is an international European Union like United Nations; with varying degrees of shared sovereignty and duties by members, most likely to be between neighboring countries or on a regional basis without any single uniformity; very intergovernmental in character but at least there is a feeling of interconnectivity. For example; the Schengen zone which covers OTL Europe might cover the entire world here on various degrees of who can enter freely or not. But there's a wide coverage of who can in places like Europe or Canada or whatever place. But there are still those who can still be slightly excluded. It depends. There's freer movement of people but not something like you can move to New York from California by just moving. It still depends on the place and the type of people entering that place. So we see a large international network here. Potentially undemocratic and very bureaucratic worldwide but at least it's there providing some OTL like stability between major powers. Probably a bit more than that. Much easier to be done in a world without a single hegemon and with the hegemonic powers seeing a lot more things in common with each other, at least somewhat.
You know, I could get very juvenile about that.
I'll tell you what, though: since the British Empire will be going through interesting times in the 1910s, there should be room for some detail on Australasia, including cultural detail. I'll give you fair warning, though: part of it will involve New Caledonia, Fiji and South Asians, although we'll also see Melbourne, the outback, Maori and maybe some waltzing sheilas.
I've mentioned in a previous update that two of the Tagore brothers are leaders in the Congress (ironically, in opposing factions), and Rabindranath is the one who was detailed to represent the family's, and the Congress', interests in London. He'll be a writer and poet too; the Tagores were polymaths in OTL, and they're no less so in TTL.
At this point there's a great deal of diversity in the nationalist movement, both inside and outside the Congress. Further events will lead to the development of a bilateral civil and military leadership, with the former more multipolar than the latter; there will be figures like Sardar Patel, but the most prominent of them will have a military as well as a civil background. (We've already met him.)
The fate of the Tasmanian Aborigines is, unfortunately, the same as OTL; their doom was sealed well before the POD. There are, as in OTL, mixed-blood populations who will become culturally significant in the twentieth century, especially in the Bass Strait.
Countries with universal male and female suffrage in 1910 include France, Russia, Australasia, Ilorin, the Scandinavian kingdoms, parts of the United States and Canada, and Bavaria (for internal elections only; the qualifications for Reichstag elections are a federal matter). The UK gives the vote to some propertied women, and Sokoto allows women to vote but with a property qualification for both genders.
That's actually a fairly good description of what I have in mind, although we'll be talking about something looser than the EU, and probably several loosely-connected regional organizations rather than a single global one.
Any more thoughts on the update itself? This is our farewell to Usman; he will die in 1912, full of honors but with many of his dreams unfulfilled. It isn't the last we'll hear of Sarah, though, and for the rest of her life, she'll call herself "one of those annoying Abacar women."
What? You're killing him off? NOOOOOOOOOO!!!
Okay. Joking aside, he is getting it on in his years now and though life expectancy has improved in his part of the world compared to OTL, his immune system is declining at the same rate as everyone does in late middle-age. So...
(gets a crystal glass and fills it with sour plums with lemon)
Here's to Usman, and the incredible story that was, and for now, still is, his life.
Now onto the third generation!
Hmm, I'm actually slightly afraid of how that could turn out. You are a talented writer but I do not want to see you mesmerise anyone with juvenile humour. It probably should be a crime.
Quite the good bunch of updates, Jonathan! Very well written and either touching or interesting. This truly is and remains a magnificent read! Also...
Farewell, good man! I raise my glass of shandy in your honor!
Farewell, good man! I raise my glass of shandy in your honor!
A suitably non-alcoholic toast to Usman: To a person who brought much good into this world, and to his ideals, may they live on in the minds of generations to come.
As always, the writing has been more-or-less spotless; the characters are engaging and the prose is so fluid that you scarcely notice it at all, which I find to be praiseworthy in this kind of work. Of course, I could have said this after every update, and indeed, perhaps I should - it's just that, when there is so little to complain about, one is tempted to let good enough be.
Still, thanks for the awesome story, Mr. Edelstein
As always, the writing has been more-or-less spotless; the characters are engaging and the prose is so fluid that you scarcely notice it at all, which I find to be praiseworthy in this kind of work. Of course, I could have said this after every update, and indeed, perhaps I should - it's just that, when there is so little to complain about, one is tempted to let good enough be.
Still, thanks for the awesome story, Mr. Edelstein
Will their be EU-like regional organizations?
While history has changed enough where I can see a pan-European grouping at the level of integration of the OTL EU not being popular, I think such an entity in East Africa (assuming it is'nt going to become a unified state), West Africa and the Southern Cone would be very possible.
Hnau
Banned
Jonathan Edelstein said:
You know, I thought this might be the last update featuring Usman. I loved how he recognized that he chose to fight for a more unified British Empire instead of a Nigerian federation and that the latter may have been possible. It is a tragic, poetic end for a heroic man who for all his life prior seemed to make only the right decisions to protect his people and defend the weak. It seems natural for old revolutionaries to be forced by age to give up the struggle to younger minds, to be only partially rewarded for their efforts in their lifetime. He's like Moses who will never see the Promised Land. I appreciate that you had him go to England rather than stay in Ilorin, Jonathan, even though maybe he accomplished less by doing so. It seems plausible that a Malê who was educated in England and fought in the Sepoy Uprising with the British would, after many years spent in the service of his homeland, would try to return to his patron country to change things there as well.
As important as Paulo Abacar was in this timeline, Usman Abacar was the heart. We saw his birth, we saw him as a child, as a father, a leader, and now as an old man. I don't think we'll have a figure quite like him for the Twentieth Century... it'll just go too fast for that. And that's why I think we should all be respectful in seeing his final departure from this narrative.
Farewell Usman, and thank you
May many generations upon the Niger be inspired by what you did and sought to accomplish! You will be sorely missed
May many generations upon the Niger be inspired by what you did and sought to accomplish! You will be sorely missed
It's really sad to see Usman Abacar go! Definitely a Nigerian federation is the more possible thing to happen but since Jonathan has a plan of several loosely tied regional organizations around, we might see it happening; sadly without Usman alive. But I'm sure he will be proud of expansion of racial equality that sure will come by the 20th century.
I don't know if this is already asked; but will still there be a United Nations analogue? At least to assist inter organizational cooperation and integration... if a substantial global minority is for a world government; at least there must be something like such an organization. It's like seeing the world in a series of complicated Interstate compacts and European treaties though with just national governments approving it without a federal Congress around. Well, that's basically OTL international agreements anyway.
I see Schengen zones around the place, even interlocking each other; granting freedom of movement for certain peoples from this country or maybe with minimal qualifications rather than the norm. I don't know.
Maybe this time around rather than a single World Bank group and an IMF we might see a series of international monetary funds for particular regions. It seems that nobody is going to be a US hegemon analogue here. It's quite multipolar. Which is quite healthier for the world anyway.
Definitely a Nigerian federation is the more possible thing to happen but since Jonathan has a plan of several loosely tied regional organizations around, we might see it happening; sadly without Usman alive. But I'm sure he will be proud of expansion of racial equality that sure will come by the 20th century.I don't know if this is already asked; but will still there be a United Nations analogue? At least to assist inter organizational cooperation and integration... if a substantial global minority is for a world government; at least there must be something like such an organization. It's like seeing the world in a series of complicated Interstate compacts and European treaties though with just national governments approving it without a federal Congress around. Well, that's basically OTL international agreements anyway.
I see Schengen zones around the place, even interlocking each other; granting freedom of movement for certain peoples from this country or maybe with minimal qualifications rather than the norm. I don't know.
Maybe this time around rather than a single World Bank group and an IMF we might see a series of international monetary funds for particular regions. It seems that nobody is going to be a US hegemon analogue here. It's quite multipolar. Which is quite healthier for the world anyway.
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You know this makes me think of something; ITTL Islam is not only apparently more widespread, but the Islamic countries are more influential and even non-Muslim countries are inspired by the various ideologies that've developed in Islamic Africa, now Islam has some very strict religious rules regarding financial matters, notably that charging/collecting interest is forbidden, so it will be interesting to see how the international economy develops considering that will be something that needs to be taken into account.
Well Jonathan, you said that all cultures are welcome in your timeline and it is never too late to include any of them, so in light of this TL going into the 1910’s I present you with another obscure ethnic group : the Thai Malays.
The Thai Malays are just as what their titles are except that they live on the other side of the Malay-Thai border. But back in the day it didn’t used to be this; Back in the 1500’s there was the Kingdom of Pattani which ruled a bit of the northern Malay Peninsula and from searching around, they were quite influential in the region up to their OTL annexation into Siam in 1902, though cultural influence from the north was already underway ever since the 18th century. Once annexed, the Siamese started to Thai-ify the region with varied successes with some provinces managing to adapt to Thai culture while other parts waging insurgencies which lasted up until today (this still forms a wedge between Malay-Thai relations though it is less so nowadays now that our Prime Minister is offering talks to both parties). Nevertheless, the region is now home to a mixed culture that, OTL and ITTL, has more in relation to one another than to the Malay states of the south. Nowadays, most Kelantanese and Southern-Thais have more connections to one another than to their immediate neighbors, a connection aided somewhat due to the intermarriage between the two kingdoms in their heyday (you won’t find this in history books; it’s local lore)
Now with reformist Islam making the rounds, I’m guessing that these states would be willing to try and follow through with a few incremental reforms, doubly so now that both Siam is now under a British sphere of influence and the 1909 Anglo-Siamese treaty is butterflied due to the Great War. Still though, the society there is deeply conservative compared to the rest of Malaya, so there could also be a different path of development being undertaken there. Not only that, I think that when the Malay states (Johor) begin to develop a sense of nationalism, it’s going to affect the ones under Thai influence. However, the Malay-Thai states might look at this from a different way, due to the differences in culture in relation to their southern neighbours. They might want for a federation just like OTL where the states control the domestic matters, or they might push for an ‘Alsace-Lorraine’-like agreement between their two neighbours, wherein the Malays and Buddhists can have an equal say.
And since there’s also the ‘Thai protectorates’ issue to consider, too. In this TL, the Anglo-Siamese Treaty might not happen as per OTL as Siam is under British influence, and that means that Siam might still has a great influence in the Malay Peninsula instead of dividing it up with the British (on the other hand, this means that the Unfederated Malay States might not exist at all). I have a feeling that if the areas under Siamese influence gets hold of the reformist doctrines some blood is going to be spilled.
And since this is still on Malaya, how is Indian immigration going along there? In OTL, the Peninsula had large Tamil immigration due to the British plantations having need of cheap workers, and what better places to get some than from the Raj? The Tamils changed a lot of the culture once they’d arrived, especially making a giant impact on the food and creating a new population group still prevalent here today (Batu Caves). In this timeline, would it be any different? From what I can research from, they usually employ Tamil workers through the Kangani system to work in the rubber plantations, although there were employed workers in other cash crop sectors such as the tea plantations in Pahang. Is there still a rubber industry at the Peninsula at this point? If so, how prevalent are they to the Peninsula’s economy?
…A bit of topic, but could there be a possibility that the British might use West Africans as labourers in the Malay states and Singapore? That would be an interesting patch in the multiculturalism of the region!
…Also, how are relations with Hawaii and their economic/alliances right now? Is Japan trading heavily with them? Is Johore? What are the American’s opinions to the whole situation right now? I’m certain that some of them are worried that their economic dominance is being eroded bit by bit by these ‘foreigners’.
EDIT: I almost forgot, the British also use Indian civil service administrators to help in the Malay bureaucracy (save Johor) and they also employ Sikhs to keep guard over what they deemed important in the area.
DOUBLE EDIT: How are the Cham Peoples doing in this timeline?
The Thai Malays are just as what their titles are except that they live on the other side of the Malay-Thai border. But back in the day it didn’t used to be this; Back in the 1500’s there was the Kingdom of Pattani which ruled a bit of the northern Malay Peninsula and from searching around, they were quite influential in the region up to their OTL annexation into Siam in 1902, though cultural influence from the north was already underway ever since the 18th century. Once annexed, the Siamese started to Thai-ify the region with varied successes with some provinces managing to adapt to Thai culture while other parts waging insurgencies which lasted up until today (this still forms a wedge between Malay-Thai relations though it is less so nowadays now that our Prime Minister is offering talks to both parties). Nevertheless, the region is now home to a mixed culture that, OTL and ITTL, has more in relation to one another than to the Malay states of the south. Nowadays, most Kelantanese and Southern-Thais have more connections to one another than to their immediate neighbors, a connection aided somewhat due to the intermarriage between the two kingdoms in their heyday (you won’t find this in history books; it’s local lore)
Now with reformist Islam making the rounds, I’m guessing that these states would be willing to try and follow through with a few incremental reforms, doubly so now that both Siam is now under a British sphere of influence and the 1909 Anglo-Siamese treaty is butterflied due to the Great War. Still though, the society there is deeply conservative compared to the rest of Malaya, so there could also be a different path of development being undertaken there. Not only that, I think that when the Malay states (Johor) begin to develop a sense of nationalism, it’s going to affect the ones under Thai influence. However, the Malay-Thai states might look at this from a different way, due to the differences in culture in relation to their southern neighbours. They might want for a federation just like OTL where the states control the domestic matters, or they might push for an ‘Alsace-Lorraine’-like agreement between their two neighbours, wherein the Malays and Buddhists can have an equal say.
And since there’s also the ‘Thai protectorates’ issue to consider, too. In this TL, the Anglo-Siamese Treaty might not happen as per OTL as Siam is under British influence, and that means that Siam might still has a great influence in the Malay Peninsula instead of dividing it up with the British (on the other hand, this means that the Unfederated Malay States might not exist at all). I have a feeling that if the areas under Siamese influence gets hold of the reformist doctrines some blood is going to be spilled.
And since this is still on Malaya, how is Indian immigration going along there? In OTL, the Peninsula had large Tamil immigration due to the British plantations having need of cheap workers, and what better places to get some than from the Raj? The Tamils changed a lot of the culture once they’d arrived, especially making a giant impact on the food and creating a new population group still prevalent here today (Batu Caves). In this timeline, would it be any different? From what I can research from, they usually employ Tamil workers through the Kangani system to work in the rubber plantations, although there were employed workers in other cash crop sectors such as the tea plantations in Pahang. Is there still a rubber industry at the Peninsula at this point? If so, how prevalent are they to the Peninsula’s economy?
…A bit of topic, but could there be a possibility that the British might use West Africans as labourers in the Malay states and Singapore? That would be an interesting patch in the multiculturalism of the region!
…Also, how are relations with Hawaii and their economic/alliances right now? Is Japan trading heavily with them? Is Johore? What are the American’s opinions to the whole situation right now? I’m certain that some of them are worried that their economic dominance is being eroded bit by bit by these ‘foreigners’.
EDIT: I almost forgot, the British also use Indian civil service administrators to help in the Malay bureaucracy (save Johor) and they also employ Sikhs to keep guard over what they deemed important in the area.
DOUBLE EDIT: How are the Cham Peoples doing in this timeline?
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