Makhno's Ukraine

What if Nestor Mahkno's "The Revolutionary Insurrectionary Army of Ukraine "
Succeeds in separating from Russia and creating a "Free Territory"? Would it be quickly conquered, would it lead to a democracy a dictatorship, or perhaps against allodds a truly anarchist state?
Discuss
 

Wolfpaw

Banned
Conquered as soon as Moscow gets its ducks in a row.

Until then, we get more of the European Pol Pot.
 

Wolfpaw

Banned
But perhaps it end's up as a buffer state. Backed by the allies for it's opposition to the soviets.
Why? That's what Poland was for.

And any buffer state they support will be a Ukrainian nationalist one, certainly not a regime ruled by a jumped-up bandit who forces people out of cities and shrieks about Revolution to the point where Trotsky sounds like a goddamned piccolo.
 
Why? That's what Poland was for.

And any buffer state they support will be a Ukrainian nationalist one, certainly not a regime ruled by a jumped-up bandit who forces people out of cities and shrieks about Revolution to the point where Trotsky sounds like a goddamned piccolo.
Fair point, alright let's say ASB's intervene and make it impossible for the nation to be immediately conquered, what happens now and how does the government function.
 

Wolfpaw

Banned
Fair point, alright let's say ASB's intervene and make it impossible for the nation to be immediately conquered, what happens now and how does the government function.
Makhno keeps forcing people out of cities and into the countryside to work on farms. Peasants continue to be terrorized to a point that would make Stalin blush (Ukrainians STILL hate Makhno more than Stalin, and that's OTL). Famine, disease, and economic disintegration loom titanically on the horizon.

Basically, we've got a warlord-bandit state where the only recognized authority sprouts from the barrel of a gun.
 
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MSZ

Banned
Too bad IBC isn't here anymore, he would be able to provide us with a lot of insight.

Anyway, Makhno's Ukraine would not survive in the long run - it was hardly an organized state,more like a raider gang with a lot of territory under its "protection". Some partywould eventually kick him out, whether the bolsheviks, whites, Peltura or Pilsudski. Assuming we have some ASB preventing any of the above mentioned powers to march in his territory (say, a different regime takes power in Poland. succeeds overall in taking west-bank Ukraine, but isn't comfortable with east bank being made into a Ukraine nation-state or an SRR, thus forcing the bolsheviks to accept Makhon's rule there) then you will either face a Makhno-dictatorship (as it would be necessary to keep the place going) or a Somalia-grade failed state, where food forthe population might be adequate, but everything else would be lacking.
 
Too bad IBC isn't here anymore, he would be able to provide us with a lot of insight.

Anyway, Makhno's Ukraine would not survive in the long run - it was hardly an organized state,more like a raider gang with a lot of territory under its "protection". Some partywould eventually kick him out, whether the bolsheviks, whites, Peltura or Pilsudski. Assuming we have some ASB preventing any of the above mentioned powers to march in his territory (say, a different regime takes power in Poland. succeeds overall in taking west-bank Ukraine, but isn't comfortable with east bank being made into a Ukraine nation-state or an SRR, thus forcing the bolsheviks to accept Makhon's rule there) then you will either face a Makhno-dictatorship (as it would be necessary to keep the place going) or a Somalia-grade failed state, where food forthe population might be adequate, but everything else would be lacking.

IBC often makes good points but this dosnt really much more ''insight'' than Wolfpaw already gave us.

The fact is Ukraine ITTL would look like the Congo does today, revolutionary leaders like Makhno or Che tend to get a free-pass for the shit they pull. Either because they lost & died or were less cold-bloodedly practical than men like Lenin. Stalin (or even Mao to a degree).

So yeah, Ukraine would be a bloody nightmare until Moscow or Warsaw gets it's act together and puts Makhno down, much to everyone's relief.
 

MSZ

Banned
IBC often makes good points but this dosnt really much more ''insight'' than Wolfpaw already gave us.

The fact is Ukraine ITTL would look like the Congo does today, revolutionary leaders like Makhno or Che tend to get a free-pass for the shit they pull. Either because they lost & died or were less cold-bloodedly practical than men like Lenin. Stalin (or even Mao to a degree).

So yeah, Ukraine would be a bloody nightmare until Moscow or Warsaw gets it's act together and puts Makhno down, much to everyone's relief.

Oh, I don't disagree with Wolfpaw, in fact I stand by what he wrote 99%. That 1% is Ukraine becoming a shitty place without any authority present, like Somalia. I just mentioned IBC since we had a discussion on this topic in the past which I remember.
 
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