Make This Map a Reality

I know it's propaganda, but there are crazy people in every country, including Israel.

Your job is to give Israel the desire to conquer all the land in the map above, and in the same time the right circumstance in the region for this to tolerated by the powers.

Elements to make this happen:

1) The Revisionist Zionists dominate, with Jabotinsky as first PM of Israel.

2) Increased Jewish migration in the 1930s and 1940s, with many more Jews surviving the Holocaust and reaching Israel - but still feeling very threatened (gee, only 3M were killed) and very willing to do whatever it takes for survival.

3) Ba'ath Arabist fascism has a stronger racial component, leading to massive discontent among non-Arab minorities, and a stronger Islamist component, alienating non-Moslems.

4) Continual Ba'ath-Islamist holy wars against Israel lead Israelis to the conclusion that it's either go big or go away.

Israel makes alliances with Egyptian Copts, Lebanese Christians and Druze, Syrian Kurds and Christians, Iraqi Kurds, Turks, and Christians. Collectively these ethnic groups have sufficient numbers to rule a Middle East Empire with Israel as the keystone. Additional mercenaries (both troops and administrators/technicians) from India, Thailand, and the Philippines as needed.

The USSR doesn't like it, but what can they do? All their clients have been crushed.

The US and Europe are dubious - but Israel controls the oil. Israel shares out oil money with its Asian allies and with African clients, creating a power bloc.
 
Israel makes alliances with Egyptian Copts, Lebanese Christians and Druze, Syrian Kurds and Christians, Iraqi Kurds, Turks, and Christians. Collectively these ethnic groups have sufficient numbers to rule a Middle East Empire with Israel as the keystone. Additional mercenaries (both troops and administrators/technicians) from India, Thailand, and the Philippines as needed.

Sounds like a anti-islamic rallying cry other than a realistic scenario.

I wonder how long such an alliance can last after Israel win.

Once the common threat (the Arab Muslims) is defeated, the different groups will just go on and pursue their own ethnic interests other than stay united.

And... How about the Shiites?

The USSR doesn't like it, but what can they do? All their clients have been crushed.The US and Europe are dubious - but Israel controls the oil. Israel shares out oil money with its Asian allies and with African clients, creating a power bloc.

Such an Israel is almost a superpower in its own right, it will have a much more independent diplomatic policy, maybe a pro-soviet one?
 
Elements to make this happen:

1) The Revisionist Zionists dominate, with Jabotinsky as first PM of Israel.

2) Increased Jewish migration in the 1930s and 1940s, with many more Jews surviving the Holocaust and reaching Israel - but still feeling very threatened (gee, only 3M were killed) and very willing to do whatever it takes for survival.

3) Ba'ath Arabist fascism has a stronger racial component, leading to massive discontent among non-Arab minorities, and a stronger Islamist component, alienating non-Moslems.

4) Continual Ba'ath-Islamist holy wars against Israel lead Israelis to the conclusion that it's either go big or go away.

Israel makes alliances with Egyptian Copts, Lebanese Christians and Druze, Syrian Kurds and Christians, Iraqi Kurds, Turks, and Christians. Collectively these ethnic groups have sufficient numbers to rule a Middle East Empire with Israel as the keystone. Additional mercenaries (both troops and administrators/technicians) from India, Thailand, and the Philippines as needed.

The USSR doesn't like it, but what can they do? All their clients have been crushed.

The US and Europe are dubious - but Israel controls the oil. Israel shares out oil money with its Asian allies and with African clients, creating a power bloc.

1. One can argue that the Revisionists did prevail.

2. Plausible enough, I suppose. Remember that Jews were only about a third of Palestine's population in 1948, so you'd have something big that brought a LOT of them there. Realistically, there wasn't much incentive to settle in Palestine prior to the establishment of Israel.

3. The Ba'ath party was founded by Christians as a counterweight to Islamism. Arab Christians are ethnically Arab. You'd be better off just saying that Islamism takes root instead of Ba'athism.

4. What would be the national interest of these "holy wars" and what would sustain them? Jordan made peace in 1967, Egypt in 1973 (and Syria, basically), and Saudi Arabia and Lebanon were never involved in attacking Israel. There'd have to be a good geopolitical reason to have continuous warfare, at least something better than "MUSLIMS HATE FREEDOM".

I don't know how much you know about Middle Eastern Christians, but most of them are very anti-Zionist, at least as much as Muslims are. Palestinian Christians are just as much victims of the current situation as Palestinian Muslims are. If given the choice between "Islamist-Ba'athist" Iraq and a genocidal conquering Israel, Iraqi Christians will choose Iraq. Hell, Israel can't get the Iranian Jews to emigrate the without active persecution that drove Jews from the Arab countries, and I really doubt that Iraq and Egypt are going to launch pogroms and persecution of ~10% of their population who also form their urban merchant class.

EDIT: There are a million angles to attack this one, and until I read the King of Wu's post, I forgot the most obvious one. What of the Shiites? Baathism in Iraq was mostly about keeping the Shiites down in favor of Sunnis and Christians. I think the whole premise of hordes of rampaging Muslim fanatics is just massively flawed in this thread as in any thread where it's brought up as a possible thing.
 
Sounds like a anti-islamic rallying cry

If Arab Moslems make themselves obnoxious enough, then those they have attacked might unite in self-defense.

other than a realistic scenario.

You want a realistic scenario leading to that map or something like it?

Well, people in Hell want ice water, too.

I wonder how long such an alliance can last after Israel win.

Once the common threat (the Arab Muslims) is defeated, the different groups will just go on and pursue their own ethnic interests other than stay united.

Well, Israel is running the show, and they'll keep the others in. Plus there is tons of old money for those with the program; why mess with a Good Thing?
And... How about the Shiites?
Good point, but waddaya want? Egg in your beer?
Such an Israel is almost a superpower in its own right, it will have a much more independent diplomatic policy, maybe a pro-soviet one?

WTF would Israel or anyone else be "pro-Soviet" except as a play against someone else?
 
1. One can argue that the Revisionists did prevail.
Meaning Likud? That was way too late for anything like this.

3. The Ba'ath party was founded by Christians as a counterweight to Islamism. Arab Christians are ethnically Arab. You'd be better off just saying that Islamism takes root instead of Ba'athism.
I know that, but I needed every possible ally for super-Israel. Incidentally, the Coptic Christians of Egypt are not Arabs. They were there before the Arabs came.

4. What would be the national interest of these "holy wars" and what would sustain them?
There is not and never has been any rational "national interest" for Arab wars against Israel. The motive is and always has been a mix of religious and ethnic anger. Moslem Arabs feel insulted and shamed by the establishment and survival of Israel, and by multiple defeats in battle by Israel. They seek the destruction of Israel to restore their mutilated honor. (Not all Moslem Arabs of course, but enough for four wars against Israel and endless campaigns of terror and "resistance", all of which have been abject failures.)


Jordan made peace in 1967, Egypt in 1973 (and Syria, basically), and Saudi Arabia and Lebanon were never involved in attacking Israel.
Five historical errors in one sentence. Impressive in a way.

1) Jordanian troops joined in the Syrian attack in 1973. Jordan
made peace with Israel in 1994.
2) Egypt made peace with Israel in 1979.
3) Syria is still officially at war with Israel.
4) Saudi Arabian troops fought in the Six Day War.
5) Lebanese forces attacked Israel in 1948.

There'd have to be a good geopolitical reason to have continuous warfare, at least something better than "MUSLIMS HATE FREEDOM".
How about the fact that Moslems, especially Arab Moslems, consider the existence of Israel an intolerable shame? For any part of the Dar-ul-Islam to be occupied and ruled by infidels, who should be dhimmi but instead rule over Moslems, is a violation of fundamental Moslem doctrine. If you don't believe me, ask Hamas. Or the Moslem Brotherhood. Or Hezbollah.

I don't know how much you know about Middle Eastern Christians, but most of them are very anti-Zionist, at least as much as Muslims are.
"at least as much as Muslims are." I rather doubt that.

I a genocidal conquering Israel
That's an interesting phrase. I wonder what prompted it.

Iraqi Christians will choose Iraq.
If Israel actually decided to exterminate its enemies, Iraqi Christians (and for that matter Syrian Christians, Lebanese Christians, Druze, and a lot of Moslems) would very quickly become Israeli allies - because the alternative would be quick extermination. Middle Eastern history, ancient and modern, is replete with factions and figures who sided with "the strong horse" against their "nation" or monarch or ethnic/religious faction. And the evidence of the last 65 years is that Israel could destroy any military opposition in the region.

Of course, Israel has never wanted to exterminate anyone, nor even to rule over non-Jews outside Eretz Israel.

I think the whole premise of hordes of rampaging Muslim fanatics is just massively flawed in this thread as in any thread where it's brought up as a possible thing.
Because, of course, there are no hordes of rampaging Moslem fanatics anywhere. Not in Egypt, not in Nigeria, not in Mali, not in Pakistan, not in Algeria... Right?

I threw the scenario together in five minutes. It has several "wank" elements - mainly Arab Moslems managing to drive everyone else in the region into becoming Israeli allies. Straight Arab-supremacist Ba'athism wouldn't alienate non-Moslem Arabs; straight Islamism wouldn't alienate non-Arab Moslems. It's a stretch, but extravagant ends call for extravagant means, and the premise is pretty extravagant.
 
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