Make the Ottoman Empire survive for 60 more years

We all know that the Ottoman Empire existed for many centuries prior before its collapse. However, before WW1, it was already seen as the "sick man of Europe". What if, ironically, it was the opposite? How can the Ottoman Empire survive until the 1980's? What would it be like? What kind of culture would it have? How would it affect the modern political world of the 20th century?
 
stay out of ww 1 or align with the brits is an obvious and most common answer.. or .. win WW 1 .. just don't loose.

culture? look at places like Egypt or Jordan or other middle eastern nations. same concept.
Larger difference however might be that as things progress in the 20th century you could see a more moderate ottoman empire. Oil will be the biggest advantage moving forward. just as a note this question was asked about 2 weeks ago give or take. quick hit on search and there are a few answers.

Most of the empire as it was in 1914 would remain a part of the empire.
 
I think a constitutional “Ottoman Sultanate (or even Kingdom) of Turkey” is much more likely than a continued Ottoman Empire. Contiguous multi-ethnic empires all collapsed under the weight of nationalism. A Turkish nation-state with an Ottoman figurehead could have worked. You could even have an Ottoman figurehead of the Turkish independence movement working with Mustapha Kemal. In that case I could see the Sultan being forced to give up the Caliphate.

Of course, in this scenario Anatolian minorities are as screwed as they were in OTL.

Another possibility is a Soviet Union style communist state (without a monarch, obviously). The Soviet Union was able to use force and ideology to keep the multi-ethnic Russian Empire together for 74 more years.
 
Easy. Ottomans ignore the brits seizing those ships they sold them in 1914, stay out of the war. My guess the 1920s sees western puppet states carved out of Shia Iraq and say a good 2/3 of OTL Lebanon, but the Ottomans remain intact otherwise. Hm, the Ottomans likely ensure the Hashemites end up running OTL Saudi Arabia instead of the Saudis on the grounds of the Hashemites being more ah civilized.

The country holding the most oil would be Hashemite Arabia, basically Jordan with oil money. It'd set the tone for the gulf states -- conservative but not Wahabi. This on top of the Ottoman-led Caliphate being a thing still. Weaker islamicism, more moderate interpretations of Islam prevail than OTL overall.

You either get an oil crisis a decade earlier, as a more prosperous islamic world decides to flex it's muscles re: oil purchasers or a worse one two decades later as demand hits brick walls of reality. Your call.
 
I think a constitutional “Ottoman Sultanate (or even Kingdom) of Turkey” is much more likely than a continued Ottoman Empire. Contiguous multi-ethnic empires all collapsed under the weight of nationalism.

The Turkish can keep their multi-ethnic state with religion.

Have them move their capital to Mecca and take on all the trappings of the Caliphate, build and maintain some sort of pilgrimage road network, fill it with Ottoman flags. When your very route to God is state backed your feelings of them will be much better.

IMO the best POD is for them to join the CP who win. The USA doesn't get involved. Perhaps their alliance gets started earlier with Germany and they get some military assistance ala German help with China. They end up being the fellow Muslims rescuing their brethren from Christian rule in the Islamic parts of Russia and Africa. Maintaining an empire is all about propaganda and framing.

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If they do win they've got plenty of land to take over too if you want to revitiliaze it (and indeed owning more land actually in this case makes it harder for places to rebel because of the whole caliphate claim)
 
The Turkish can keep their multi-ethnic state with religion.

Have them move their capital to Mecca and take on all the trappings of the Caliphate, build and maintain some sort of pilgrimage road network, fill it with Ottoman flags. When your very route to God is state backed your feelings of them will be much better.

IMO the best POD is for them to join the CP who win. The USA doesn't get involved. Perhaps their alliance gets started earlier with Germany and they get some military assistance ala German help with China. They end up being the fellow Muslims rescuing their brethren from Christian rule in the Islamic parts of Russia and Africa. Maintaining an empire is all about propaganda and framing

If they do win they've got plenty of land to take over too if you want to revitiliaze it (and indeed owning more land actually in this case makes it harder for places to rebel because of the whole caliphate claim)
So what would life be in this Ottoman Empire, how long can it survive? Would it be some kind of federation like Russia? Or it would be like present-day Saudi Arabia?
 
Easy. Ottomans ignore the brits seizing those ships they sold them in 1914, stay out of the war. My guess the 1920s sees western puppet states carved out of Shia Iraq and say a good 2/3 of OTL Lebanon, but the Ottomans remain intact otherwise. Hm, the Ottomans likely ensure the Hashemites end up running OTL Saudi Arabia instead of the Saudis on the grounds of the Hashemites being more ah civilized.

The country holding the most oil would be Hashemite Arabia, basically Jordan with oil money. It'd set the tone for the gulf states -- conservative but not Wahabi. This on top of the Ottoman-led Caliphate being a thing still. Weaker islamicism, more moderate interpretations of Islam prevail than OTL overall.

You either get an oil crisis a decade earlier, as a more prosperous islamic world decides to flex it's muscles re: oil purchasers or a worse one two decades later as demand hits brick walls of reality. Your call.
Would Israel still be formed which caused this Oil Crisis in the first place? How would the Ottoman's relation to the rest of the world be?
 
Would Israel still be formed which caused this Oil Crisis in the first place? How would the Ottoman's relation to the rest of the world be?
If the Ottomans survive, Israel isn't happening. If the Central Powers win, no Holocaust, no push for creating Israel. If the Ottomans stay neutral or join the Entente and the CP falls, I doubt the West would want to antagonize an ally by expropriating land especially as the Ottomans can be used as a bulwark against Russia.
 
To keep the Ottomans intact I would side them with the Entente or at least have them sit out the war. If they are part of the CPs then I feel one needs to have a non-belligerent Britain to save the OE from being dismembered, any stalemated peace should get the OE basically intact, otherwise it is France or Russia or both looking to carve it. I am currently going with a stalemate war or a neutral OE, leaning pro-CP. I have enough to keep the OE from falling apart but the cracks are there.

First one must deal with the three Pashas and the Turkish nationalism they represent, the Ottomans were diverse, the Pashas are really putting Turks first. If they get secular than the Islamic glue holding the Arabs in will fail, and their brand of secular is not actually inclusive of non-Islamic minorities either.

Next one must decide how Islam plays in an Ottoman Empire that is moving towards modernity and a secular civil society. Moderate and reform minded Islamic thinkers are taking hold and redirecting Islam? Does Islam fade into the private sphere of activity or assert itself in how the Empire is governed?

Do we see some democratic institutions coming into place and creating a parliament or congress under the nominal Monarch, or does it function too long as a single party state effectively a dictatorship? How quickly do we devolve political power to the provincial, local or individual?

Will the OE reassert authority over the rest of Arabia? Minimizing the power of the Saud tribe and Wahhabi clerics? Does this provoke war with Britain? Do Arabs assimilate into a more Turkish Ottoman national identity or renew their independence?

Will the oil wealth be enough to bind this thing together or does it fuel the break up? Does the wealth flow into the urban core and make the Ottomans behave like a petro state or do they leverage it to modernize, industrialize and build a modern state for the masses?
 
So what would life be in this Ottoman Empire, how long can it survive? Would it be some kind of federation like Russia? Or it would be like present-day Saudi Arabia?
It would be more like Saudi than not. You'd have an upper class rich off of oil, land, and/or raw materials, an a state held together by Islamic faith. Yes, the Empire would have a larger Christian population than Saudi Arabia, but the only real strategy to keep the Arab subjects of the Empire on side is through religion. Further, the caliphate is useful politically if/when the European colonial empires begin to crumble.
 
It would be more like Saudi than not. You'd have an upper class rich off of oil, land, and/or raw materials, an a state held together by Islamic faith. Yes, the Empire would have a larger Christian population than Saudi Arabia, but the only real strategy to keep the Arab subjects of the Empire on side is through religion. Further, the caliphate is useful politically if/when the European colonial empires begin to crumble.

This is my fear, the oil wealth simply stagnates the Empire once more, the elite can live well, the masses are no longer starving but dangled in a vast welfare state, no genuine development, the big new buildings devoid of any actual businesses, the highways used for parades, so indeed too much like the stereotype of Saudi Arabia. And if so then why not an Islamic revolution akin to Iran? If modern trappings just destroy the fabric of life then why not return to the singular constant? Modernity skin deep does not build communities as faith and family can. And even Islam itself can barely contain the ages old rivalries, squabbles and jealousies of this group or that. We need a middle class and a genuine Ottoman identity to make the OE more than a corpse in fine clothes, we need the Arabs and other minorities to be peers with the Turks rather than disliked half-brothers or less, and even the influx of oil wealth is decades away. And with it there are plenty of wolves coveting all that wealth.
 
This is my fear, the oil wealth simply stagnates the Empire once more, the elite can live well, the masses are no longer starving but dangled in a vast welfare state, no genuine development, the big new buildings devoid of any actual businesses, the highways used for parades, so indeed too much like the stereotype of Saudi Arabia. And if so then why not an Islamic revolution akin to Iran? If modern trappings just destroy the fabric of life then why not return to the singular constant? Modernity skin deep does not build communities as faith and family can. And even Islam itself can barely contain the ages old rivalries, squabbles and jealousies of this group or that. We need a middle class and a genuine Ottoman identity to make the OE more than a corpse in fine clothes, we need the Arabs and other minorities to be peers with the Turks rather than disliked half-brothers or less, and even the influx of oil wealth is decades away. And with it there are plenty of wolves coveting all that wealth.
It might also be a police state and/or controlled by the military if a discontented working class occasionally causes problems. I don't think we'd see an Iran-style revolution here because the Empire would b mostly Sunni, and the Caliphate would remain. Oddly, an enduring Ottoman Empire under these circumstances might tamp down Islamic extremism because the Caliphate would still exist.
 
It might also be a police state and/or controlled by the military if a discontented working class occasionally causes problems. I don't think we'd see an Iran-style revolution here because the Empire would b mostly Sunni, and the Caliphate would remain. Oddly, an enduring Ottoman Empire under these circumstances might tamp down Islamic extremism because the Caliphate would still exist.

A repressive state would not be out of character. We did see how socialism mixed into several Arab states so some form of class identity or worker/peasant opposition might take hold. I am not certain the Sunni are any less subject to radicalization or revolution if they are put under the right pressures, it might be Arab nationalists usurping Islam to cloak themselves in the most appealing union of ethnic, religious and national ambitions. But your counter-point is ell taken, the Caliphate would redirect Islamic identity to support the state, it might better keep the Shia and Sunni fission from becoming violent, the impact of the religion of this whole region is a big variable.
 
We all know that the Ottoman Empire existed for many centuries prior before its collapse. However, before WW1, it was already seen as the "sick man of Europe". What if, ironically, it was the opposite? How can the Ottoman Empire survive until the 1980's? What would it be like? What kind of culture would it have? How would it affect the modern political world of the 20th century?

It cab survive till 2018 with mass butterflies though.

How it can survive:
1. Central Powers win WW1
2. Ottomans remain neutral

The latter is the best option as it guarantees a lot. The Ottomans secure Nejd during the War as well as Qatar and Kuwait. They have huge oil reserves which they corporate with the British. If Russia still gets beaten up and ends up communist then the Empire has a stronger position in diplomacy against the 'red danger'. .

Things in WWII might get interesting...
 
I personally find that an Ottoman State that over time loses its possessions in:

OTL Balkans, Libya, Egypt, Arabia and Kuwait (It's too easy)

-and being forced to develop what it has left in:

Thrace, Anatolia, The Levant and Mesopotamia

-is infinitely more interesting than just a straight Ottowank. A pity there are not any timelines covering such a scenario.
 
It cab survive till 2018 with mass butterflies though.

How it can survive:
1. Central Powers win WW1
2. Ottomans remain neutral

The latter is the best option as it guarantees a lot. The Ottomans secure Nejd during the War as well as Qatar and Kuwait. They have huge oil reserves which they corporate with the British. If Russia still gets beaten up and ends up communist then the Empire has a stronger position in diplomacy against the 'red danger'. .

Things in WWII might get interesting...
Assuming there is still a World War II.

If there's still a Russian Revolution, then the Turks probably still recover Kars too.
 
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