HistoricalArthropod
Banned
How is German culture less prone to bribing? If Slovenia fell into chaos and the central government became weak somehow, there would be an increase in bribing.
Make a third world country in Europe
- Thread starter HistoricalArthropod
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This is harder to make happen for Slovenia, than for other former Yugoslav republics.
FillyofDelphi
Banned
Look at it this way: bribery is not a common custom in Austria. Therefore, Austrian bussinesses are not very willing to partake in corruption, and are a close and large source of potential investment capital to produce prosperity. Therefore, if I am an instiution trying to make money in Slovenia, I had an incentive to crack down on corruption inside my own structure as it will attract more investment than a rival who dosen't do so and more likely both to be more efficent domestically and get access to larger, richer markets in wealthier, more regulated nations. So I make more wealth by accommodating my benefactors/customers than what I would skimming off the top.
With a little bit of creative rewriting of the Greek Resistance during WW2, even Greece could fit the bill - and even more so the remaining territory that the government-in-exile assumes while the Communists control most of it. Then you can get huge political instability, a weak economy with very little to back it except tourism and the military, and all the associated Third World stuff in the rump territory. As for Communist Greece itself - much depends of the attitudes of the Yugoslav, Albanian, and Bulgarian neighbors and if the Balkan Socialist Federation project gets off the ground.
What do you mean by “Third World”? If you mean developing then this happened in OTL. Look at Moldova and Ukraine. Plenty of poor countries in eastren Europe. Or does this mean the Cold War definition? Still happened. Ireland and Switzerland were relativity neutral.
IIRC Slovenia was basically its own thing within Yugoslavia. It also helped that it was one of the more better-off constituent units of the federation, and that when it did secede it did so with a minimum of fuss. As a result, Slovenia was probably the only area of Yugoslavia not affected at all by civil war as essentially Yugoslavia's Baltic States equivalent.
HistoricalArthropod
Banned
They did have a border war didnt they tho? Again, Macedonia was the only totally peacful part of the dissolution
I would say it it nearly impossible for a European country to get to that level of state collapse for a long time (outside of direct civil wars). For a few reasons:
1) European cultures lack tribal identities. In Somalia and Iraq, once federal government fell apart, the tribes took over. In the young men of the tribe then took instructions from the elders of the tribe rather than any edicts by a new government. This makes it much harder to re-establish control. Meanwhile in Europe nothing like this really exists. if a government fell apart, warlords or politicians make take over but won't have the same level of control as a tribal elder. This would make it much easier for a government to re-establish control.
2) Europe is highly urbanised and middle class. This makes the people who just want peace a larger part of the population. If you're a subsistence farmer your country falling apart doesn't affect you that much as long as your farm, village and market are peaceful. The Middle Classes such as entrepreneurs and professions suffer much more from a societal collapse. They have a lot more to loose and their job might depend on national or international markets. They also usually have considerable political power too. This reduces they likelyhood of complete collapse and lessens resistance to a peacekeeping force trying to re-establish control.
3) Nationalism: Countries of Europe have hundreds of years of centralised control or thinking themselves as being together as one nationality. This is unlike Iraq or Somalia which are relatively new states. This lessens the likelyhood of complete collapse (doesn't apply to areas with large minorities such as Spain or UK even potentially Italy & Germany)
I think a country in could get to the level of chaos such as Colombia during the civil war. With large parts outside of government control and constant terrorists attacks. But it would be very very hard to make a country as third world as Somalia or Afghan, the countries are just too rich and urbanised.
HistoricalArthropod
Banned
The middle east and other places like this also have non tribal nationalist movements, like Pan arabism or greater Somalia.
Many places in the middle east are highly urbanized. After all, there is many historic and highly populated cities.
Portugal, Spain and Ireland are good candidates in my opinion, and they've already been mentioned.
A Morgenthau Germany could probably fit the bill as well.
Another idea would be Turkey without Attaturk. Would it be possible for Turkey to get carved up in Sevres, colonized and then decolonized in a manner similar to the Middle East?
A Morgenthau Germany could probably fit the bill as well.
Another idea would be Turkey without Attaturk. Would it be possible for Turkey to get carved up in Sevres, colonized and then decolonized in a manner similar to the Middle East?
That is true, but they also have tribal links. These are much stronger than the notions of Pan-Arabism or Greater Somalia.
Yes, but the two that have gone into failed state status (Somalia & Afghanistan) are not urbanised.
Looking at what happened here in the '90 and especially BiH the countries were reduced to third world status for a time and while most recovered BiH did not. The guns are silent but it is a failed state with a byzantine administration, high unemployment, high levels of emigration, declining population and economy which would be non existent without foreign financial backing. It is more similar to a bottomless pit whose edges need to be constantly maintained just to avoid swallowing its surrounding.
I have also traveled through parts of Serbia, Bulgaria and Romania which escape any modern classification.
I have also traveled through parts of Serbia, Bulgaria and Romania which escape any modern classification.
Dementor
Banned
I don't quite understand quite what this means? Is this is an euphemism for "are as backward as a Third World country"?
I've heard it a couple of times, something like "poverty of the third world coupled with demographics of an advanced economy". There's also the "mafia state" concept.
What about Spain? It was pretty undeveloped before Franco died.
HistoricalArthropod
Banned
Maybe a much worse Spanish civil war where the country remains united in name only.