I also see them losing as long as Russia's uninvolved.![]()
Who says Russia won't get involved, the Orthodox don't like Sodomy any more than the Catholics.
I also see them losing as long as Russia's uninvolved.![]()
Who says Russia won't get involved, the Orthodox don't like Sodomy any more than the Catholics.
You've missed the point and idea of this thread entirely. I am impressed. I wasn't aware someone could be so off-mark.Your problem is that gays dont reproduce. Homosexuality may have a genetic basis, but it is not a gene passed down from generation to generation like say being blue eyed. Even the most gay man and lesbian woman (if they decided to hold their noses and have sex), the child would have no more of a chance to be gay than anyone else. Maybe by the fact that because it would be highly encouraged and pushed that maybe more would be gay but still straight kids would outnumber gay ones.
So lets say you do have 1,000 gay people form a colony. Then what? They have some children, maybe raise them as a group but since only maybe at the most, 1 in 10 would be gay soon the numbers of straight offspring would outnumber the aging gay parents. And as things usually go, kids after a while reject their parents ways. Especially after they look around and figure out that theres is the only gay town in the US.
You criticism is certainly valid. The scenario I presented was very much in the category of ASB, but I was trying to produce a 19th century American version of the Frederick idea being thrown around.Your problem is that gays dont reproduce... Even the most gay man and lesbian woman (if they decided to hold their noses and have sex), the child would have no more of a chance to be gay than anyone else...
So lets say you do have 1,000 gay people form a colony. Then what? They have some children, maybe raise them as a group but since only maybe at the most, 1 in 10 would be gay soon the numbers of straight offspring would outnumber the aging gay parents. And as things usually go, kids after a while reject their parents ways. Especially after they look around and figure out that theres is the only gay town in the US.
You criticism is certainly valid. The scenario I presented was very much in the category of ASB, but I was trying to produce a 19th century American version of the Frederick idea being thrown around.
To explain my thinking, the idea of a "colony" was in the vein of the Oneida Community. I really didn't think reproduction would be likely in the population of the colony. More what I thought was the idea of a haven that would attract people (mostly adults or at least teenagers) would maintain the population. The colony would be made up of adults to begin with that could build a colony, and certainly it would have been newsworthy at the time. If the colony attracted luminaries like I suggested in the scenario, it wouldn't be inconcievable that within a few decades that the colony would become home to other artists regardless of sexual orientation. And from there it would develop into a place that was tolerant of homosexuality as opposed to being a segregated community. Again very ASB, but I don't see a realistic proposal to make this happen. So I threw my idea out there.
I'm pretty sure the goal of Gay Rights isn't to make a 'Homosexual Colony'. It's about having homosexuals equal in the eyes of the law, and preferably in the eyes of society as well. I've offered a very easy way for this to start. Homosexuality(that would be, being attracted to ones' sex) will be given quite the boost by having one of the most influential leaders to ever live openly coming out. The stereotypes of 'pansy faggots' would never occur either, since Frederick was many things, but a pansy was not one of them.
Probably impossible, but I'm curious. I'm curious if we can make America a safe haven for Gay people in the 1800s. Bonus points if its early on or somewhere in the middle. Its probably ASB, but its less ASB than some other things.
Probably impossible, but I'm curious. I'm curious if we can make America a safe haven for Gay people in the 1800s. Bonus points if its early on or somewhere in the middle. Its probably ASB, but its less ASB than some other things.
The Washington Monument will likely stay the same to our OTL though.
Uh, yeah, I can say officially as a gay man that that's just not happening, anywhere in the world at that point, with the potential exception of certain tolerant Native American tribes such as the Navajo, which actually accepted and tolerated transgendered people and even gave them a special place in their culture.Probably impossible, but I'm curious. I'm curious if we can make America a safe haven for Gay people in the 1800s. Bonus points if its early on or somewhere in the middle. Its probably ASB, but its less ASB than some other things.
Uh, yeah, I can say officially as a gay man that that's just not happening, anywhere in the world at that point, with the potential exception of certain tolerant Native American tribes such as the Navajo, which actually accepted and tolerated transgendered people and even gave them a special place in their culture.
Still, that would soon change with the influence of Christian beliefs, so I do not see that anywhere would be a safe haven.
Homosexuals were generally accepted in the 1920's, but a new wave of conservatism crushed that. If you can have whatever caused the twenties to roar do so earlier, then possibly, a more tolerant US could emerge.
Incidentally, speaking of the acceptance of minorities homosexuals in the 1920s...what really needs to be done in schools, I think, is that when they cover this period they take special care to cover this and to show how it reversed itself after that decade. You almost never hear about this in any public school in the United States and I only found out about it, well, frankly, right now. (I blame the American educational system.Conservatism wasn't as great a factor in the decline of homosexual tolerance during the Great Depression. I'm convinced that the social revolutions of the flapper era were crushed simply because of the dire financial crisis brought on after 1929. European, especially German, homosexual culture might be a different case. Did homosexual culture thrive in Berlin during the Great Depression?