Macartney embassy goes to Japan

Macartney's trade mission to China famously failed. However, there were also plans to go to Japan, but they couldn't find an interpreted in the Dutch East Indies, as they had hoped.

What if they found someone?
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
The Japanese likely would have refused to have anything to do with them except to tell them to get the hell out.
 
That remained open after the 16th century due to some very special circumstances. The Dutch hated Catholics almost as much as the Japanese did, were present when Japan was still comparatively open to trade, and went out of the way to appear humble and subservient. The MacCartaney embassy will arrive at about the same time as the various Russian scares starting to kick off, which did little to make Japan open up-quite the reverse, in fact. It will alert the Japanese to the continued presence of the British fairly near their seas, but will probably achieve little else. Of particular note is Macartney's unwillingness to kowtow before the Chinese. This sort of uprightness will do him in poor stead in Japan.

The presence of yet more foreigners offering trade may slightly strengthen those Western Scholars who argued in favour of opening Japan up, but will achieve little in terms of policy.
 
That remained open after the 16th century due to some very special circumstances. The Dutch hated Catholics almost as much as the Japanese did, were present when Japan was still comparatively open to trade, and went out of the way to appear humble and subservient. The MacCartaney embassy will arrive at about the same time as the various Russian scares starting to kick off, which did little to make Japan open up-quite the reverse, in fact. It will alert the Japanese to the continued presence of the British fairly near their seas, but will probably achieve little else. Of particular note is Macartney's unwillingness to kowtow before the Chinese. This sort of uprightness will do him in poor stead in Japan.

The presence of yet more foreigners offering trade may slightly strengthen those Western Scholars who argued in favour of opening Japan up, but will achieve little in terms of policy.
Quite.

Also several english merchants did trade with japan in this period, pretending to be dutch. Admittedly not many.
 
It will alert the Japanese to the continued presence of the British fairly near their seas, but will probably achieve little else. Of particular note is Macartney's unwillingness to kowtow before the Chinese. This sort of uprightness will do him in poor stead in Japan.

I'm with most of what you say but not quite sure here.
The kowtowing to the Chinese thing was down to Chinese arrogance and inability to see diplomatic relations as anything but inferior foreigners coming to pay homage to the mighty emperor of the world.
The Japanese were a lot more realistic and capable of dealing with other countries as other countries.
I don't think Macartney would have much trouble with merely bowing to important people as a show of respect as long as they in turn respect him as the reprensetative of someone else important.
That Macartney wouldn't at least play along with some Chinese traditions doesn't seem to put him in a good light but there was a long term brewing attitude of annoyance towards the Chinese from Europeans there and the factor of wanting to differentiate himself as much as possible from the tributaries. Who knows how things would go in Japan, I'm not an expert on the man at all.


How would he go to Japan? Just try and sail into a port? Or do it properly through the Dutch?
 
The real reason why McCartney was rejected wasn't because he wouldn't kowtow, the reason was because the British wanted an extraterritorial trading outpost.
 
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