MacArthur drinks sake in a Japanese prison camp

If they kill MacArthur then he becomes a martyr/war hero. Once the American press gets a hold of this--well, if you thought MacArthur's "legend" was big in OTL, imagine what kind of legend he would have in a timeline where he is portrayed as a martyr! MacArthur would literally become the heroic general that could do no wrong.

As to Korea not happening, I disagree. I think the Korean War still occurs with the north invading the south. However, I think we end up not doing so well, maybe losing all of Korea in the first year or so. Like him or not, MacArthur came up with a viable plan to push the North Koreans back...no MacArthur no Inchon, no Inchon and the North Korean army successfully pushes the UN/US forces into the sea.

Geon

I think his legacy would probably be the same as Percivals, he would just be afforded more sympathy due to his death. However I think the Japanese would not just kill him because of who he is. They may attempt to turn him like the Russians did to Field Marshall Paulas.
 
I think his legacy would probably be the same as Percivals, he would just be afforded more sympathy due to his death. However I think the Japanese would not just kill him because of who he is. They may attempt to turn him like the Russians did to Field Marshall Paulas.

I said some negative things about MacArthur but I wouldn't imagine him as a Von Paulus.

I can see him as a high ranking prisoner that the Japanese may use later in the war to open up some negotiation with the US. I can see them being very nice to him after the loss of the Marianas.
 
I said some negative things about MacArthur but I wouldn't imagine him as a Von Paulus.

I can see him as a high ranking prisoner that the Japanese may use later in the war to open up some negotiation with the US. I can see them being very nice to him after the loss of the Marianas.

I know that MacArthur is no Von Paulus, but I wonder if the Japanese would at least make the attempt. If they understand MacArthur's ego they could try using it against him. Tell him something like, "If you sign this document or make this statement then life will get better for your soldiers we have captured. Think of how grateful your men will be with you, after you help improve their captivity."
 
I know that MacArthur is no Von Paulus, but I wonder if the Japanese would at least make the attempt. If they understand MacArthur's ego they could try using it against him. Tell him something like, "If you sign this document or make this statement then life will get better for your soldiers we have captured. Think of how grateful your men will be with you, after you help improve their captivity."

It would be very transparent and I don't think MacArthur would fall for it. I don't think he would sign anything that would condemn his country in anyway. He was a patriotic American.

But.. He would be interested in playing a mediation role that would lead to ending the war. This would help to redeem his reputation after defeat in the Phillipines.

I can see the Japanese going to MacArthur in late 1944 and asking him for advice on how to make an honourable peace. They could then convince him to act as a sort of envoy.

Maybe.
 
It would be very transparent and I don't think MacArthur would fall for it. I don't think he would sign anything that would condemn his country in anyway. He was a patriotic American.

But.. He would be interested in playing a mediation role that would lead to ending the war. This would help to redeem his reputation after defeat in the Phillipines.

I can see the Japanese going to MacArthur in late 1944 and asking him for advice on how to make an honourable peace. They could then convince him to act as a sort of envoy.

Maybe.

Yes, I think your scenario is probably more likely than mine. For the record I do not think that MacArthur would betray the USA either.
 
If Mac gets preferental treatment while his men die like flies in hellhole prison camps I easily see that fact coming back to haunt him...
 

Sumeragi

Banned
Who knows how the general officers that were captured treated in OTL?
Officers were given preferred treatment only in meals, with all other treatments (forced labor, marching, torture, etc) being dealt out "equally". The only other treatment was appointing an officer to act as a representative in discussing issues with prison authorities and also keeping "control" over the other prisoners.

Of course, MacArthur might be given slightly different treatment given his high rank, but I don't see anything different.
 
Without MacArthur would the primary US target have been Taiwan? Would whomever been the military governor of Japan have insisted on keeping the emperor?
 
Without MacArthur would the primary US target have been Taiwan? Would whomever been the military governor of Japan have insisted on keeping the emperor?

If Nimitz gets control of the whole Pacific then I think Formosa would have been the target. It's closer to Japan and more important to the Japanese politically and economically. Losing Formosa would be a bitter blow to the Japanese and you have bypassed the large Japanese forces in the Phillipines. You also save Manila from being destroyed unless the USAAF does it.

I am not 100% sure how much of keeping the war crimminal emperor was MacArthur's decision or a US policy decision. It made sense for the Americans to keep the emperor in order to win over the Japanese elite but I am sure they could have strung up Hirohito and still have a democratic Japan as an ally if they really wanted to.
 

Geon

Donor
The Emperor

Without MacArthur would the primary US target have been Taiwan? Would whomever been the military governor of Japan have insisted on keeping the emperor?

That's actually a more important question then you may think. One of the demands Japan kept until almost the end was that the emperor was to remain on the throne. It was the only condition that the Allies allowed the Japanese when they surrendered. If a different general is in charge here it is possible that condition will not be accepted.

That could well mean that in spite of the two nuclear bombings, and the invasion by the Soviets of Manchuria and the slow starvation of the Japanese people, the government would simply refuse to accept unconditional surrender. This would leave the Allies with two choices: either starve and bomb Japan into final submission or invasion. I don't see the Japanese signing any agreement that would put the Emperor in a POW camp nor have him up on war crimes.

Geon
 

Sumeragi

Banned
Without MacArthur would the primary US target have been Taiwan?

I think not, since War Plan Orange did still call for getting to Luzon. The US would not have been able to sustain the logistics of keeping a force in Taiwan without at least getting Luzon, so the basic outline of the plan would probably not change at all.

However, what would probably change is the amount of resources allocated to the defense of New Guinea and Australia, of which I'm not certain at all. I would say that Nimitz would be able to get his unified multi-service force and conduct a much more aggressive drive straight into Luzon and Taiwan. This could be a dangerous strategy, but one that might just push the end of the war a bit earlier, so that we might have the situation where the US would be in the position to launch landings on Korea before the fall of Berlin. It would be interesting to see how Nimitz's combined force would be efficient.


Would whomever been the military governor of Japan have insisted on keeping the emperor?
Keeping the Throne, yes. However, most likely the Showa Tenno would have been forced to abdicate by the Imperial Family, thereby being able to keep the Japanese under control while also having the Tenno take responsibility. This is something most people here seem to not know: the Showa Tenno was opposed even within his family, and it was only MacArthur's bullying and threats that allowed the Tenno to keep his hold over the throne without having the crumble under pressure.
 
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