MacArthur doesn't make it out of the Philippines, Ike in the SW Pacific?

Hey...been wondering about having MacArthur and his posse getting their PT boats sunk while en route away from the Philippines.

Who does the US send to organize their efforts in the SW Pacific? Would Eisenhower be a possibility given his prior service under MacArthur? Or is he destined for Europe at this point?

As for long term ramifications, please try to limit your prognostications to the immediate aftermath in the South-west Pacific Area, as the fact that there would be fewer resources given to the SW Pacific and more allocated to Nimitz in such a scenario is a given. Surely operations would continue in the SWPA, the question is though, to what extent...

Without MacArthur, do the Allies expend as many resources on pacifying Papua New Guinea? IMO these operations seemed rather pointless, especially after Rabaul was neutralized...How much of OTL's campaigns in PNG and the SWPA are undertaken without MacArthur's influence?
 
Last edited:
Hey...been wondering about having MacArthur and his posse getting their PT boats sunk while en route away from the Philippines.

Who does the US send to organize their efforts in the SW Pacific? Would Eisenhower be a possibility given his prior service under MacArthur? Or is he destined for Europe at this point?

As for long term ramifications, please try to limit your prognostications to the immediate aftermath in the South-west Pacific Area, as the fact that there would be fewer resources given to the SW Pacific and more allocated to Nimitz in such a scenario is a given. Surely operations would continue in the SWPA, the question is though, to what extent...

Without MacArthur, do the Allies expend as many resources on pacifying Papua New Guinea? IMO these operations seemed rather pointless, especially after Rabaul was neutralized...How much of OTL's campaigns in PNG and the SWPA are undertaken without MacArthur's influence?

Ike was Marshall's fair haired boy, and I think no matter what he is destined for Europe. Without MacArthur, there would definitely be some changes.

Guadalcanal was King's idea, and the forces there are going to be engaged no matter what. The Kokada Trail battle is going to force the commitment of the 32nd Infantry Division as Buna as well. After that.....

I suspect a continued campaign in the Solomons, but after Rabual is encircled, I don't think we would have seen much action in New Guinea after that. However, without MacArthur, King will probably get his way and instead of the Philippines, the US Navy strikes directly at Taiwan instead.. which might have been a serious error. MacArthur convinced FDR to go for the Philippines and override King on his plan, and without him I don't see how Nimitz could have persuaded King otherwise.
 
Well we at least know CalBear would be happy (see sig). :D

I agree with Fearless up to a certain point things are not really going to change in the strategic view.

IIRC though MacArthur, as overall in command in the southeast, had the sub fleet pulling a lot of special missions instead of hunting Japanese naval assets (fighting vessels and transports). Granted some of these missions saved some innocent people, or provided supplies to anti-Japanese forces in Japanese occupied territory however some of those subs could have sank valuable naval assets had they been provisioned as such. Of course with the bum torpedo issue it still might have been a failure, but the possibility is there.
 

Commissar

Banned
Ike was Marshall's fair haired boy, and I think no matter what he is destined for Europe. Without MacArthur, there would definitely be some changes.

Ike was FDR's third choice for Europe. Marshall was out because the British didn't want to do a cross channel invasion, and General Andrews the next choice died in a plane crash.
 
Maybe Walter Krueger takes over if Wainwright is left in the PI, but I see Nimitz as the overall Pacific Commander.

With Dugout Doug dead, Thomas Blamey would probably be the land forces commander
 
I think Krueger would had been perfect for the role.

With out Dugway Doug I think Nimitz would had a role like Ike in EUrope. As over all commander of the would Pac war zone.
 

Warsie

Banned
Eisenhower's effectiveness as commander in that area is lesser than that of MacArthur as MacArthur spent years working with the Filipino nations and tribes as well as paying close in attention to Japan, as well as talking with their fellow colonialists in Singapore. Malaysia and Indochina. I think he'll have to be assisted more in those contexts.

Though there won't be as much drama as MacArthur and his....drama generating antics do not get transmitted so far, and assuming the US wing WW2 Eisenhower won't be such a dick with japanese generals Homma and Yamashita.....wait probably not given during the surrender of the Germans Eisenhower was pretty damn dickish to the German officers who surrendered, not shaking hands, not smiling at them, coming into the surrender ceremony after the germans signed and left, etc. The other Allied officers were nicer. Eisenhower will probably be a dick to the Japanese officers too, though I wonder if there'll be such blatant fraudulent 'trials' as the one of Homma.....
 
I'm curious as to why people point to Krueger as being one of the foremost candidates to replace Mac in 1942. IIRC he wasn't assigned to the SWPA until '43. What makes him such a good candidate for the commander from the point of view in TTL March 1942?

Given the fact that, if anything the person sent to the SWPA would have to coordinate his actions with the British, Dutch, and Australians that person would need considerable diplomatic experience. (All of this of course was ignored by Mac who kept his "Boys from Bataan" in charge of the show without input from the Aussies etc.)

Should Ike be sent to Australia following MacArthur's death, I could see him coordinating actions more effectively with the allies in the region. For example... in OTL, MacArthur withheld the use of landbased aircraft during the Battle of the Coral Sea. Perhaps in TTL Ike or whoever replaces Mac, deploys his forces to aid the USN resulting in the Coral sea being a tactical as well as a strategic victory for the Allies?

Also, the phrase "...If Wainwright is left in the PI..." intrigues me, perhaps in TTL following the botched evacuation of MacArthur, Wainwright too is ordered to evacuate and takes Mac's place as commander in the SWPA. Is this plausible? How would Wainwright deal with the SWPA?
 

pnyckqx

Banned
Maybe Walter Krueger takes over if Wainwright is left in the PI, but I see Nimitz as the overall Pacific Commander.

With Dugout Doug dead, Thomas Blamey would probably be the land forces commander
It probably wouldn't be Walt Krueger. Krueger was MacArthur's pick to be the commander of Sixth Army after MacArthur had made it to Australia. When MacArthur requested Krueger to Marshall, Marshall was perplexed as to why MacArthur had chosen him.

One attribute that MacArthur did have was selecting staff members who would deliver what MacArthur required, often getting brilliant work from them. Yet when the same people worked for some other commander, they were inadequate or incompetent.

There were some exceptions such as Eisenhower. Wainwright was a brilliant tactician, and could handle troops better drunk than most commanders could sober. His fighting retreat from Northern Luzon to the Baatan peninsula is still studied at the War College.

Other leaders, such as MacArthur's Chief of Staff Richard Sutherland and G-2 Charles Willoghby could not have functioned under another commander.

As far as replacing MacArthur ITTL, assuming that SWPA is not obsorbed under Nimitz, the best replacement would be General Joseph Stillwell. It would probably remove one headache for Roosevelt because of the bad relationship between Stillwell and Chaing in China.
 
Top