Lyndon Johnson dies in 1962, replaced by Symington

Lyndon Johnson dies in 1962, replaced by Symington
Pondering effect of LBJ dying before JFK assignation.
Replaced, perhaps, by Senator Symington; a conservative, pro-military southern Democrat.

Would JKF still get assissinated?
Would the Vietnam War still proceed on OTL.
Would the "Great Society" happen to any great degree?
And what would be effects of the absense of the Great Society social programs (ie, Medicare, welfare, third-world immigration, etc.)?

Ken G.
 
I think this scenario hinges on whether JFK lives or dies. Really, butterflies would render that different if it happened at all, but the interesting thing is JFK dying and Symington in 1963.
 
Not wanting to tinker with OTL too much, my ATL would still have JFK assissinated as in OTL.

Well, unfortunately for Mr. Symington , the 25th amendment didn't take effect until 1967. So we're looking at Acting President John McCormack.

Maybe if Alben Barkley had died under Truman and there was a push to get the 25th approved faster.
 
Does JFK still need to go to Dallas in November 63? Still could be a feud between Connally and Yarborough. But with LBJ out of the way, there might not be the urgency to solve it asap.
 
Does JFK still need to go to Dallas in November 63? Still could be a feud between Connally and Yarborough. But with LBJ out of the way, there might not be the urgency to solve it asap.

With LBJ gone Kennedy might feel it more urgent to woo Texans. I see President McCormik not seeking his own term and Humphrey wiiining the nomination. I see HHH and his Southern running mate beating Goldwater in a smaller than OTL landslide.
 
LBJ dies in office prior to JFK assassination. How no Great Society?

Ooops. Forgot about no 25th amendment.
Without which LBJ is not replaced.

Was trying to think of scenerios where the turmoil of the 1960s, the 1965 Immigration Act, and the Great Society did not occur.

I agree that McCormick, after succeeding to Acting President, and without a VP for a year or too, probably doesn't seek his own Presidency. And HHH probably does win as suggested. And we probably have HHH's version of the Great Society.

OK, what does the ATL have to be to not have the Great Society, etc.???
Because if LBJ is not JFK's running mate, JFK probably does not win.

Also, perhaps the political forces that led to the JFK assassination are relaxed if LBJ is not around. If JFK lives, who might be new VP in 1964, assumming that JFK wins re-election? And would we still have Vietnam but lesser Great Society style programs??
 
Was trying to think of scenerios where the turmoil of the 1960s, the 1965 Immigration Act, and the Great Society did not occur.

No LBJ gets rid of the latter two, but the unrest goes all the way back to the amounts of lead toddlers were exposed to as babies. If you don't have white backlash from a successful civil rights, you could end up with racial violence anyways plus failed civil rights. Look at the Troubles.

And would we still have Vietnam but lesser Great Society style programs??

Yes.
 
Last edited:
OR, just back up a tad & have Kennedy pick Symington in 1960.
I don't think we're looking for President Nixon.
1960NixonNoLBJ.png

1960NixonNoLBJ.png
 
I do think Kennedy could win 1960 with a running mate besides Johnson, and I don't believe it defaults to Nixon period without LBJ, but it gets much, much, much, much, much harder. It's easier to just have him run with Johnson and then off Johnson.

I did a thread on 1960 without LBJ. This thread might be able to borrow some things from that discussion.
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?p=6458070

Part of the thing going into that sort of scenario would also be to make Nixon screw up more so than whatever ways he actually did. I've tried to get discussions going on that topic as well, but I don't recall ever really getting any response as to what ways Nixon could drop them ball or screw up.
 
When it comes to JFK's choice of running mate, Kennedy at Los Angeles was playing it close to his chest.

Very suspiciously close to his chest; in that he was willing to conflate Symington with Orville Freeman of Minnesota as being the same kind of choice. Which is, er, problematic for the idea that he was promoting Symington as the safe general election guy.

I think Caro is right to suggest that Kennedy always planned to pick LBJ, even to the point of misleading RFK about that. Because Symington just isn't any kind of silver bullet for Dixie, his border state cred means nothing to the Southrons, not with The Catholic on the top of the ticket.
Would the "Great Society" happen to any great degree?
And what would be effects of the absense of the Great Society social programs (ie, Medicare, welfare, third-world immigration, etc.)

I have to be honest, I've never seen that lumped in with the social programme legislation.
 
Top