Luftwaffe night intruders.

In 1941 the Luftwaffe began using Ju88C to follow RAF bombers back and attack them over their bases, apparently it had considerable potential. This tactic was then stopped on the orders of Hitler, who wanted the German people to see that they were being defended.

WI this tactic was continued and developed, specifically what if it was in use during the first RAF 1000 Bomber raids of May-June 1942?
 
How many Ju88c's did they have? How much more fuel would it have used. Long flights lead to losses. And doesn't the RAF have pretty good night fighters too. Wouldn't this be the Battle of Britain all over again just on a smaller scale? The RAF would have all the same advantages of better ground control, longer loiter times, and every Ju88 lost would mean the capture of a crew.

Oh sure, it might have worked pretty well the first time, but I see it as becoming very expensive very fast.
 
How many Ju88c's did they have? How much more fuel would it have used. Long flights lead to losses. And doesn't the RAF have pretty good night fighters too. Wouldn't this be the Battle of Britain all over again just on a smaller scale? The RAF would have all the same advantages of better ground control, longer loiter times, and every Ju88 lost would mean the capture of a crew.

Oh sure, it might have worked pretty well the first time, but I see it as becoming very expensive very fast.



The Chiefs at High Wycombe breathed a sigh of relief when Hitler ordered the operations halted.
 
In 1941 the Luftwaffe began using Ju88C to follow RAF bombers back and attack them over their bases, apparently it had considerable potential. This tactic was then stopped on the orders of Hitler, who wanted the German people to see that they were being defended.

WI this tactic was continued and developed, specifically what if it was in use during the first RAF 1000 Bomber raids of May-June 1942?
It would have worked the first two or three times, then the British would have got wise and had Mosquitos waiting for them. Also, Lancasters at the time were fitted with night-fighter detection systems.

In the long run it wouldn't have worked.
 

Deleted member 1487

The Germans tried the tactics later on and just as the other posters noted, after the first couple times the intruders took more losses than they inflicted. They had their successes, but it was really a one-off trick.
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=104024
There is plenty of information about this subject at the above link, especially the late war operations.
 
During the Battle of Britain, roving fighter cover was "perceived" as less effective than close cover, and the practice was curtailed. Night intruder missions by NJG2 were perceived as less effective than normal nightfighter operations, and likewise curtailed. In both cases, perception led to an incorrect assessment of fact.
 
I read that Axis History thread before putting this up, it quickly goes of track and outside the timeframe Id consider relevent anyway. What it does say is that after a false start about 20 aircraft on strength claimed 125 bombers downed and many more damaged for 55 losses in 10 months. Certainly not all of these losses were to enemy action, in 1940 11 of the 21 losses were enemy action, so possibly the 1941 exchange rate was 4:1. The talk about later operations is moot in my mind because the technologial edge was well and truly with the Allies by 1943, it was far more even in early 1942.

The scenario Id suggest is that NJG2 gets sent to the Med in Oct 1941 but then sent back to NW Europe in about April 1942 and the battle actually fought during the 3 thousand bomber raids of May/June 1942. This is before the Mosquito was introduced into frontline service, the Beaufighter with metre wave radar was the RAFs main night fighter.

The 1000 bomber raids were padded out with OCU groups and other cats and dogs to make up the numbers and had a lot of older bombers and less expereinced crews. I think theyd be more vulnerable to being attacked over their own bases as they returned home, and the confusuion and disruption would cause as many or more losses as the guns themselves. It would take the RAF a few goes to get the measure of these raids, but by then the damage would have been done. I think for the amount of effort it would cost for the Luftwaffe it would give them the initiative for a little while and force the RAF to react for a change.
 
Lancasters were fitted with special radar detectors tuned into German frequencies, which weren't brilliant over Germany (due to the volume of radar the Germans were able to put up), but would have instantly picked out any night-fighters attempting to trail them back home. It wouldn't have helped either that the British had worked out a way of ambushing night-fighters over Germany, and the tactics could have been applied even more effectively over Britain.
 
The night-fighting war was one of constant measure-counter-measure-counter-counter-measure changes. Lancasters with electronic devices and Mosquito night fighters would not have been a factor when NJG2 was canned. NJG2 was quite effective when it was reassigned.
 
Lancasters were fitted with special radar detectors tuned into German frequencies, which weren't brilliant over Germany (due to the volume of radar the Germans were able to put up), but would have instantly picked out any night-fighters attempting to trail them back home. It wouldn't have helped either that the British had worked out a way of ambushing night-fighters over Germany, and the tactics could have been applied even more effectively over Britain.

Lancasters and Mosquitos with Serrate werent a factor in May 1942, this came in late 1942 onwards. I dont doubt the RAF would come out on top after a while, but in the meantime NJG2 could have a happy time with the three 1000 bomber raids. And when NJG2 get beaten theyll only have lost 20-30 planes/crews, which is hardly big bikkies in the grand scheme of things.
 
Yes it was effective, but how long it would have remained so is debatable, after all, if the pressure was there surely counter-measures would have been worked on even more rapidly than they were.
 
When a reliable counter is found that when NJG2 should be withdrawn, but while it shooting down bombers then it should be allowed to do so. The fact that the RAF would have to react and find a counter and dance to the Luftwaffes tune for a while adds to the advantage of shooting down bombers. IOTL the RAF didnt have to bother, they just went on their merry way.
 
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