Luftwaffe jets in the war

Would altitude be a good defense against the 262. I am sure I read somewhere that the early jet engines didnt do too well over 30,000 feet partly because the engines didnt stand up too well to sustained climbing.

With the short endurance of early jets they arent going to be able to take off gain height and wait for the bomber stream they have to climb straight into the bombers. The escort coming down from say 35,000 foot plus are going to have lots of speed to attack the hard climbing jets.

I know bombing accuracy would fall but the bombers have to be engaged so they become the bait to draw the jets into situations where they are at a disadvantage.
 
Would altitude be a good defense against the 262. I am sure I read somewhere that the early jet engines didnt do too well over 30,000 feet partly because the engines didnt stand up too well to sustained climbing. {snippage}

IMHO, 30k feet is way too high for the bomber stream - the number of things that fail because of the decreased temp goes way up and the already abysmal accuracy goes way down.

The only good defense against the 262 was what they used: take advantage of the engine's unhappiness at having its throttle changed too abruptly. Once the 262s have reduced power for landing they won't be able to spool up quickly enough to avoid the Allied fighters.
 
nope - no piston engine fighter can outrun the me262 in the air (starting and landing take beside - but for this you do not need such hyper plane)

sure could the allies discover the whole concept at their own - but also could the green aliens from mars be allied with the nazis or hitler, deciding he need the bomb let some supergermans produce em in a few weeks... it is possible only if you go asb. So sorry, no.

IN this plot the allies suffer badly cause they do not develop (like they did historically) the right technology... like the germans missed the radar train or the nuclear weapon train...
to change this is asb. Like "japan beat USA in pacific war" - possible? yes, but not in a realistic scenario...

Greetings

Discovering swept wings isn't something just the Germans can do. It would've been discovered with or without the help of Germans. If we had to discover it by looking at German planes, we could(The Soviets got many technologies from looking at our planes, trust me, and we did the same. The F-15 probably benefited from data about the MiG-25 obtained when a soviet pilot defected in a Mig-25. Notice the intake similarity? The Soviets used that intake style first. Copying is VERY important in R&D.). And a select few PRODUCTION P-80As were flying in '45, while we were still at war with Germany. P-80A was made by Americans. The F-86 was where German scientists really helped us alot.

And you don't have to be faster to win in the air. It comes down to many other factors, mainly skill. You're thinking 100-200 MPH is going to make the german fighters invincible. Far from it. Speed isn't everything. For example, in Vietnam, US supersonic fighters were many times downed by subsonic Mig-17s, which were considered more obsolete compared to supersonic fighters with missiles(Except the F-105, on bombing missions they basically only had the gun for defense) and reliable engines than the P-51 was compared to the Me-262. I believe Skyraiders and AH-1s managed to down Mig-17s or Mig-21s occasionally with unguided rockets or their gun.

Also, as CalBear said, swarm tactics. Brutally effective.
 
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Besides, this is the first swept wing plane in history:

Burgess-Dunne_ExCC.jpg




Was designed and built by a Brit, J.W.Dunne.


And while the Germans were indeed among the first to seriously look at swept wings, that was way before the war and thus openly and in the free scientific sphere.

Then there's the XP-55 which flew first in 1943, which was the first American swept-wing aircraft. Granted, only a prototype, but still. A similar concept was the late 30s Ambrosini SS.4 from Italy and I'm sure some others...
 
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While the Burgess-Dunne had swept wings, it failed to reach supersonic speed. Swept wings were meant to shift CL to meet CG requirements on the Me-262 as well. The XP-42 was meant to study radial engine nose designs, used by 500 mph Bearcats. Later, the aircraft was used to study the all-flying tailplane, the stabilator, in 1945, gaining research data incorporated on an actual supersonic aircraft, the Bell X-1. By the way, the X-1's wings were thin, but not swept.

p493a.jpg
 
... Later, the aircraft was used to study the all-flying tailplane, the stabilator, in 1945, gaining research data incorporated on an actual supersonic aircraft, the Bell X-1. By the way, the X-1's wings were thin, but not swept.
Although stabilators had been tried much earlier, I thought that their use in transonic and supersonic aircraft originated from the Miles M.52 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miles_M.52. They were tested on a Spitfire in 1944 and the data was passed to Bell and used to improve the X-1 design.

The British also produced a swept wing glider during WW2, the General Aircraft GAL-56, with some interesting characteristics described by Eric Brown: "It was one plane in which I found I could not relax for a second, beginning right away with takeoff. You could not lift it off the ground through the slipstream of the towing aircraft before the latter was airborne, which was the normal method, because as soon as it was clear of the ground effect-tile cushion of air between wing tip and ground, the centre of pressure suddenly shifted and the machine dived straight back into the ground, to bounce on it's very springy undercarriage wildly across the airstrip. And it had the most incredible stalling characteristics. When you eased the nose up to slow the speed down, the plane suddenly took charge and continued to rear nose up until it was in a tail slide. Even pushing the stick right on to the dash made no difference. Then suddenly the stick movement would take effect and you would be pitched forward to fall almost vertically. General Aircraft decided to investigate this awful phenomenon after we had finished our tests. Their chief test pilot, glider expert Robert Kronfeld, went into a spin and was killed. The stalling characteristics also made landing very tricky."
 
The Wright Flyer had an all-flying canard foreplane; the Demoiselle and some Bleriot XI's had all-flying tailplanes.
The Miles M.52 was the first projected to use it for supersonic flight; the X-1 was the first to use it.
General Aircraft had on it's board one Bill Stephenson, also called Intrepid. At one point, the government stepped in and changed the production management. They're gone now.
 
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