Ludendorff killed in 1914

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rast

wiking said:
No no, not keep him as CoS, keep his CoS and dismiss Prittwitz. So if the CoS is going too, why not just promote Hoffmann, even if he is junior?

I'll reserve judgement, Groener has some issues with the economy in 1916-17 and made some poor choices of his own. So perhaps Eichhorn was good, so he'll do well, but was he willing to replace EvF?
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Yes, understood now. However, answer already supplied.

Hoffmann was a dark horse yet, and a junior one as well. Age and rank wouldn't have mattered, had one known already he was a tactical genius. But at that time, nobody knew.

Groener was a GGS insider and had experience as divisional and corps commander. Whatever his faults may have been, his observations and comments are important.
 

Deleted member 1487

rast said:
Yes, understood now. However, answer already supplied.

Hoffmann was a dark horse yet, and a junior one as well. Age and rank wouldn't have mattered, had one known already he was a tactical genius. But at that time, nobody knew.

Groener was a GGS insider and had experience as divisional and corps commander. Whatever his faults may have been, his observations and comments are important.
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My point about Hoffmann would be why would the GQM get promoted over him?
 

rast

wiking said:
My point about Hoffmann would be why would the GQM get promoted over him?
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Grünert was a Generalmajor (as Waldersee had been), Hoffmann an Oberstleutnant. By that time, army CoSs still were Generalmajore or Generalleutnante.
 

JLBB

rast said:
Concerning Prittwitz, there seems to have existed some animosity anyway. Obviously, he had been selected as army commander against Moltke's advice. So, the chance for him to be relieved of his post is high.
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Out of interest, do you know whom Moltke would have given the post to or who was considered by him pre war?
 

Johnny Canuck

According to Showalter's Tannenberg, the first man discussed for taking over 8th Army after Gumbinnen was von der Goltz - Showalter says that though it was felt he knew East Prussia well, his personality would clash with Ludendorff's. With the latter out of the picture, perhaps they go with von der Goltz with a more conventional CoS (Waldersee was definitely going as well - OHL had the impression he had panicked just as Prittwitz, & had failed in his role as CoS to ameliorate his commander's pessimism).
 

Deleted member 1487

Johnny Canuck said:
According to Showalter's Tannenberg, the first man discussed for taking over 8th Army after Gumbinnen was von der Goltz - Showalter says that though it was felt he knew East Prussia well, his personality would clash with Ludendorff's. With the latter out of the picture, perhaps they go with von der Goltz with a more conventional CoS (Waldersee was definitely going as well - OHL had the impression he had panicked just as Prittwitz, & had failed in his role as CoS to ameliorate his commander's pessimism).
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He would certainly be a much better strategist than H-L, which would change some of the mistakes they made IOTL (continuing the Battle of Lodz too long, launching the 2nd Masurian Lakes in the middle of winter, sending the cavalry army after Minsk in 1915). Plus he would have a lot better relationship with Falkenhayn and probably be more 'in pocket' than H-L. However he was getting old, having been born in 1843 (Hindenburg was born 1848), meaning he was 70 in 1914. That's pretty old to be a field commander or even theater commander for OberOst later. I think if he got the nod the question would be who his CoS would be and that would be critical.

Grünert does sound quite competent, having worked with Mackensen for Gorlice-Tarnow. It might well be the ultimate match that the Ostfront needed without the politicing of H-L.
http://home.comcast.net/~jcviser/aka/gruenert.htm
 

JLBB

Johnny Canuck said:
According to Showalter's Tannenberg, the first man discussed for taking over 8th Army after Gumbinnen was von der Goltz - Showalter says that though it was felt he knew East Prussia well, his personality would clash with Ludendorff's. With the latter out of the picture, perhaps they go with von der Goltz with a more conventional CoS (Waldersee was definitely going as well - OHL had the impression he had panicked just as Prittwitz, & had failed in his role as CoS to ameliorate his commander's pessimism).
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Well, if he get's the job, then the 1 million dollar question is probably when he dies. The conditions in the Ottoman Empire probably didn't help his health, but even so, the man is old. And if he gets Falky's job, he gets a really stressfull one.
So, who would succed Goltz as chief of general staff if he still were to die before the war ends?
 
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