Low German speaking Denmark

Valdemar II

Banned
How do we make Danish into a varians of Plattdeutsch. One way I could see it happen are with a loss of Norway in 16 or 17 century and more focus toward North Germany. So what if Denmark lose Norway around 1610 to Sweden, but this is part of 30 years war just more succesful maybe with a conquest of Bremen and Pomerania, a Austrian attempt to get rid of Denmark end with large part of Jutland depopulated but in the end a Danish victory Jutland when get large amount of German refugees from the Catholic conquered protestant areas Copenhagen get over the next hundred years a large influx of German subjects as the capital over large north German areas. By 1800 standard *Danish and Plattdeutsch is mutually intelligible and lots of Plattdeutsch speaking areas use the *Danish Bible and *Danish literature.
 
Another POD is Valdemar I not being the able brinkman he was balancing the HRE and the Pope during the Investitur strife.
Had he played his had different Denmark might just have been a subordinate Kingdom of the HRE Emperor in the 12th century onwards...;)
 
Another one: have counts of Holstein Gerhard and cousin John not feel the need for a new petty king in Denmark having had the experience of Valdemar III and Christopher II.
(You ought to live up to your cover my friend :D)
 
How do we make Danish into a varians of Plattdeutsch. One way I could see it happen are with a loss of Norway in 16 or 17 century and more focus toward North Germany. So what if Denmark lose Norway around 1610 to Sweden, but this is part of 30 years war just more succesful maybe with a conquest of Bremen and Pomerania, a Austrian attempt to get rid of Denmark end with large part of Jutland depopulated but in the end a Danish victory Jutland when get large amount of German refugees from the Catholic conquered protestant areas Copenhagen get over the next hundred years a large influx of German subjects as the capital over large north German areas. By 1800 standard *Danish and Plattdeutsch is mutually intelligible and lots of Plattdeutsch speaking areas use the *Danish Bible and *Danish literature.

This POD is difficult as you have Christian 4 at the height of his carreer beating the Swedes in the Kalmar war 1611-13.
Perhaps a shift to 1658 and the Swedes get not only Trondheim Len but all of Norway... In addition to the lands east of the Sound of course...
But looking at OTL I don't really see this changing the language of Denmark, things went bad but the language survived even if administration and army spoke German.
You would have to go for worse!
 
I guess you mean all of Danish here and not just the Danes on Jutland? As I could see that being doable if you shunt the kingdom's focus onto Sweden (sticking with its base in the isles of course)
 

Redbeard

Banned
With one of the Valdemars being slightly more lucky in his North German policies we could very soon see a realm of the King of Denmark, where the large majority speaks Platdeutsch, and would soon be the language of administration, business and culture. Starting somewhere in the medieval ages there would be plenty of time to have Platdeutsch be the natural language of so many, that it isn't the issue when nationalism arrives around 1800.

Another way would be maintaining the lively trade from Platdeutsh speaking areas. In OTL this trade to a large degree collapsed with the Hansa and with that the spread of Platdeutsch (Platdeutsch being the language of the Hansa).

In this context a Hansa decisively defeating the Scandinavian Kings ought to secure a stronger Platdeutsch influece, but I think a strong and early Scandinavian Union might mean the same or more, if that Union achieve and maintain control of the Baltic coasts. By say 1400 or 1500 the accumulated wealth and economic potential of the southern Baltic coast will by far outshine that of the northern, and no matter if the King is situated in Copenhagen, Kalmar or Stockholm, the economic, cultural and demographic "centre of gravity" will be on the south coast.

Combined with a fairly stable political system that ought to have not only Denmark, but perhaps all of NW Europe (incl. GB) speak Platdeutsch as their main language in ATL 2008...:eek:

Regards

Steffen Redbeard
 
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