lousy Gringo wetbacks

If the Confederacy gains it's independence, it would slowly descend into becoming a third world country. A lot of people would possibly come to Mexico for work, assuming that Mexico is better off and relations between the U.S. and C.S. are too shaky for mass migration.

I like this idea. Maybe we could make a couple of changes in Mexico too so, things are better than in OTL. Maximilian manages to stay in power and starts a process of modernization, while the CSA goes the other way.
 

Skokie

Banned
I like this idea. Maybe we could make a couple of changes in Mexico too so, things are better than in OTL. Maximilian manages to stay in power and starts a process of modernization, while the CSA goes the other way.

I like!

Get some land reforms and universal education. You're not going to get gringo wetbacks until there is a shortage of labor in Mexico. That would require empowering Mexican peasants.
 
I don't see any of the Mexican emperors, least of all Maximilian, initiating reforms. I mean they were emperors after all! Sure Max started some liberal reforms (that were already proposed by his republican predecessor and new enemy Juarez), but he was also too harsh. That, and he was a tinpot monarch installed by a foreign government that replaced the native democratic government, creating tons of instability. Him doing a lot to help Mexico was just a pipe dream. Better to just let Benito Juarez stay president, no French intervention or French monarch.
 
I don't see any of the Mexican emperors, least of all Maximilian, initiating reforms. I mean they were emperors after all! Sure Max started some liberal reforms (that were already proposed by his republican predecessor and new enemy Juarez), but he was also too harsh. That, and he was a tinpot monarch installed by a foreign government that replaced the native democratic government, creating tons of instability. Him doing a lot to help Mexico was just a pipe dream. Better to just let Benito Juarez stay president, no French intervention or French monarch.

I guess Mexico just can't become a first world country without wanking it.
But what makes better sense to me is if the Confederacy wins becomes a country and as a primarily agrarian economy would make it poor in the 20th century. Then again it would be just as poor as Mexico.
 
I guess Mexico just can't become a first world country without wanking it.
But what makes better sense to me is if the Confederacy wins becomes a country and as a primarily agrarian economy would make it poor in the 20th century. Then again it would be just as poor as Mexico.
Wait, what!? Having Max on the Mexican throne = wanking Mexico? Since when? That whole French intervention kinda put them back. Really far. By throwing them into bloody civil war. Again. Over an ineffective Austrian monarch. Really.
 
I don't see any of the Mexican emperors, least of all Maximilian, initiating reforms. I mean they were emperors after all! Sure Max started some liberal reforms (that were already proposed by his republican predecessor and new enemy Juarez), but he was also too harsh. That, and he was a tinpot monarch installed by a foreign government that replaced the native democratic government, creating tons of instability. Him doing a lot to help Mexico was just a pipe dream. Better to just let Benito Juarez stay president, no French intervention or French monarch.

It doesn't have to be the "Emperors" who enact the reforms. Agustin was only in power for a few moths and between him an Max you had almost 50 years of a a quasi-republican government.
Also by the time of Maxi and Juarez (1860s) it is already too late for Mexico to realistically become a state powerful, stable, and rich enough to have American wetbacks as this scenario proposes (Mexico had already lost half of it territory to the US and 50+ years of internal strife had weakened it even further). Furthermore the US was already having its Civil War (which we might assume will go as OTL's since any POD here is to late to make a difference).

You need a POD prior to Mexican Independence (or during it) to make this scenario even remotely possible. Short of the nuclear holocaust already proposed.

(And actually Maxi would be much more likely to reform Mexico than Agustin by far. For starters he actually had the intention of doing so. )
 
You're probably right about Max being better (as in more reformist) than Iturbide, but what he lacked was any ability to do so. As in, as you said, it was too late, and also he was weak, his country was in a civil war, and his reforms were already planned by the guy he deposed. It just irks me how people think placing this bum on an invented throne will solve Mexico's problems.
 
You're probably right about Max being better (as in more reformist) than Iturbide, but what he lacked was any ability to do so. As in, as you said, it was too late, and also he was weak, his country was in a civil war, and his reforms were already planned by the guy he deposed. It just irks me how people think placing this bum on an invented throne will solve Mexico's problems.

On this I can agree. If somehow Maximilian had managed to keep the throne, it would have only been for a few more years at the most. By the end of his "reign" in OTL he no longer even had the support of the conservatives who saw him as too liberal. Even if he managed to hang on to the throne, he will have to deal with all the "revolucionarios" at the turn of the century. In the end it is just a set up for second (and likely bloodier) Civil War.

However I also find it just as annoying. Al those who see the "liberals" in Mexico like saints. Juarez was not free of sin and neither were any of the "founding fathers" (Hidalgo, Allende, Morelos). Most of their hero status comes from the fact that they all died on time.
 
Use Occam's Razor

The most likely scenarios are those involving either the Yellowstone Supervolcano or New Ice Age/Climate Change (The Day After Tomorrow scenario).

In these, the United States is so devastated that the population has to move south or die and the US government is overwhelmed. It could occur before or after 1900 or in the future, or (if moderators are snuffy) in ASB. The Supervolcano is the one that really puts the wind up me:eek:
 
The most likely scenarios are those involving either the Yellowstone Supervolcano or New Ice Age/Climate Change (The Day After Tomorrow scenario).

In these, the United States is so devastated that the population has to move south or die and the US government is overwhelmed. It could occur before or after 1900 or in the future, or (if moderators are snuffy) in ASB. The Supervolcano is the one that really puts the wind up me:eek:


kind of like a barbarians at the gate scenario.

In other words they'll just take over Mexico. In otl, gringo squatters took over california and texas.
 
Boot's on the other foot, folks

Did Chicano squatters take over California and Texas, or did they instead become an underclass ?
 
Did Chicano squatters take over California and Texas, or did they instead become an underclass ?

Careful, what you say would be pretty close to race baiting, unless you say it out of not knowing any better.

Chicanos, by definition, can't be squatters. The term means American born.
 
Careful, what you say would be pretty close to race baiting, unless you say it out of not knowing any better.

Chicanos, by definition, can't be squatters. The term means American born.
I'm fairly sure that his point was that, seeing as Mexican immigrants are not taking over the SouthWest despite becoming majorities, it would be strange to assume that white American immigrants would take over Mexico if they migrated there.
 
Oops

Yes, correct. No disrespect intended to the Mexicans at all. Lack of data on Chicano definition - different country.
 
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