Louisiana secedes: 1803

IIRC the Ban on Slavery in the NW ordinance failed by one vote.
there were slaves in Illinios during Lincolns days. After all he bought a couple.
 
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Meanwhile Spain is militarily impotent and frantic to avoid losing Florida and perhaps other colonies to the US so trying to set up in New Orleans is just asking for trouble.

London, on the other hand, is ecstatic to have US interest completely diverted from Canada and therefore no threat. Unless the risk to access on the Mississippi becomes so great that the US actually starts building a proper military...
 
First off- the US would lose 1812 even more then OTL if they were also fighting a miraculously powerful Louisiana.

You would need someone else helping Louisiana I'd think first. Maybe a lot of Mexican support (semi-official from Spain itself)
 
If Louisiana is Allied to Britain during the War of 1812, why did America still win? Surely they'd have needed to divert resources which would have kept the stalemate going. The British may have come out with a clear victory in this.

"still win"? I think you forget the US did not win the War of 1812 in OTL. Unless not meeting any of your objectives, nor gaining any territory, nor altering the outcome of your opponent's actions against an ally, are all conditions of victory.
 
Illinois was always a free state. Have you proof of your claim?

I think he is right. There were slaves in California - briefly. Since no state has border patrols that are asking people to show 'their papers' its entirely likely that there were slaves at various times in Illinois or even other Northwest Territory states. The owners eventually moved on, but I doubt the citizens of the states were really caring in general about the state of any blacks that passed thru or resided briefly in their state.
 
I think he is right. There were slaves in California - briefly. Since no state has border patrols that are asking people to show 'their papers' its entirely likely that there were slaves at various times in Illinois or even other Northwest Territory states. The owners eventually moved on, but I doubt the citizens of the states were really caring in general about the state of any blacks that passed thru or resided briefly in their state.

Of course one could visit a free state with his slave, the U.S. Supreme Court upheld such a right. However, slaves were not bought or sold in the free states.
 
Of course one could visit a free state with his slave, the U.S. Supreme Court upheld such a right. However, slaves were not bought or sold in the free states.

Probably not bought or sold in the heart of Chicago or Springfield, but there is not suppose to be any trafficking of marijuana in California, but it sure does happen. Same thing about brewing moonshine in Tennessee, not suppose to do it but it happens. In the rural areas near the southern border of Illinois I just wouldn't be surprised that slave sales did take place.
 
Probably not bought or sold in the heart of Chicago or Springfield, but there is not suppose to be any trafficking of marijuana in California, but it sure does happen. Same thing about brewing moonshine in Tennessee, not suppose to do it but it happens. In the rural areas near the southern border of Illinois I just wouldn't be surprised that slave sales did take place.

It's possible, but Illinois was a free state nonetheless. There is no reason why Louisiana of its citizens would have to have practiced lawful slavetrading.
 
It's possible, but Illinois was a free state nonetheless. There is no reason why Louisiana of its citizens would have to have practiced lawful slavetrading.

Well, the sky is bloody blue! Who cares if Illinois is a free state. Wouldn't Louisiana's citizens practiced lawful slavetrading since its permitted and profitable and lawful?
 
Well, the sky is bloody blue! Who cares if Illinois is a free state. Wouldn't Louisiana's citizens practiced lawful slavetrading since its permitted and profitable and lawful?

Yes, but we were discussing the hypothetical situation in which slavery is prohibited west of the Mississippi.
 
IIRC the Ban on Slavery in the NW ordinance failed by one vote.
there were slaves in Illinios during Lincolns days. After all he bought a couple.

Wrong on almost all counts. The ban on slavery in the Northwest Ordinance passed, in fact the Congress of Confederation passed the Northwest Ordinance unanimously. In addition to that, Illlinois specifically abolished slavery in their 1818 state constitutuion and passed laws making it difficult for free blacks to move there.

There were a handful of slaves in Illinois during Lincoln's time, Dred Scott being the most famous one. Scott's master was only in Illinois temporarily because he'd been posted there by the army.

Lincoln never owned slaves.
 
Lincoln never owned slaves.
Thought everyone knew this story, I think it shows Lincoln being very subtle.

Lincoln was looking to buy a load of feed for his Animals, and a local Farmer who Lincoln had argued with over his owning Slaves had a load for sale.
Lincoln bid on and won the load at X$/ton, for Wagon and contents.

As the wagon was being weighed, the Farmer sat on the seat watching Lincoln.
As several started to say something Lincoln motioned to them to stay quiet.

After Lincoln paid, the Man started to get off but Lincoln stopped him.

"I bought Wagon and Contents, and when it was weighed, You were part of the Contents"

The Farmer had to buy back his freedom, and He moved away, shortly thereafter.

But for about 10 minutes, Lincoln owned Him.
 
"still win"? I think you forget the US did not win the War of 1812 in OTL. Unless not meeting any of your objectives, nor gaining any territory, nor altering the outcome of your opponent's actions against an ally, are all conditions of victory.

Impressment ceased, British soldiers left their forts in the Ohio Valley, and the back of any serious native resistance east of the Mississippi was broken.

Ghent might not have included any of the major outcomes of the war, but the Americans certain accomplished what they'd set out to do (minus Canada, which was never realistic in the first place).
 
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