Louis XV dies with no direct male heirs

Who become king of France

  • Charles III of Spain

    Votes: 4 13.8%
  • 'Charles IV' of Spain

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Louis Philippe d'Orléans

    Votes: 24 82.8%
  • Any other possibilities (please explain)

    Votes: 1 3.4%

  • Total voters
    29
The French élites would not like being ruled by a quasi-unknown foreigner with an imbecile son as heir. Louis XV knew it and I can see no reason why he would reverse the decisions of Utrecht just so Charles can get the throne instead of Louis Philippe.
 
Well, IOTL Charles III of Spain died in 1788 while Philip Antonio died in 1777 aged thirty. If Philip's parents couldn't be bothered to marry him off then, I don't see much more chance of him being married if he is second-in-line for the French throne. If Charles III and Philip Antonio still die in 1788 and 1777 respectively, the next-in-line would be Charles IV of Spain, whom I consider as bad, if not worse than, Louis XVI. Ferdinand of Naples (I accidentally called him Francisco in my previous post) hardly seems any better. That just leaves Gabriel and Antonio Pascal.

There's a difference between this TTL and OTL: Charles X might not have a choice in the matter. Unlike in Spain or Naples where he can abdicate in favor of younger sons, France sees the succession as passing from eldest son to eldest son. A mad/doofus king has never been blocked from the throne before, so there wouldn't be precedent for it. OTL when Carlos became king of Spain in 1759 he had Filippo assessed by a team of doctors to see if he was fit to rule. The doctors affirmed he wasn't, so Carlos abdicated in favor of son no. 3 instead. If the dauphin dies in 1761, Carlos is now going to be the legal claimant (barring the Treaties of Utrecht) to the French throne. So, he's going to know that France will never accept a passing over of an older in favor of a younger son (Spain did it in 1700, but France won't), most likely he's going to try and find some girl (see candidates mentioned) and hope that Filippo gets a son on her, otherwise he's gonna have to start making contingency plans - Carlos IV to succeed him in France, Ferdinando to succeed him in Spain, Ferdinando's eldest son to succeed him in Spain (so Carlos IV Tito/Francisco I) and his second in Naples (Francesco I/Gennaro I).
 
TOC TOC ;)
You count one's chickens before they're hatched
Dude, also we're here: the Spanish Cortés of March 1713 :cool:

And we also have the value as Fundamental Laws of the Kingdom of Spain.
And: the Crown of France was most important and prominent over the Spanish crown? :rolleyes:
 
TOC TOC ;)
You count one's chickens before they're hatched
Dude, also we're here: the Spanish Cortés of March 1713 :cool:

And we also have the value as Fundamental Laws of the Kingdom of Spain.
And: the Crown of France was most important and prominent over the Spanish crown? :rolleyes:

IDK - how does one go about deciding whether one crown is more important than another?
 
TOC TOC ;)
You count one's chickens before they're hatched
Dude, also we're here: the Spanish Cortés of March 1713 :cool:

And we also have the value as Fundamental Laws of the Kingdom of Spain.
And: the Crown of France was most important and prominent over the Spanish crown? :rolleyes:
Demographically, prestige-wise and power-wise ? Definitely, yes.
 
I think the potential for a compromise is there by having Charles Antoine (Carlos Antonio) sent to Paris from 1761 as the accepted heir. He’d be thirteen in 1761, and 26 or so when Louis died. That way he’d be an accepted fixture in France but still be the legitimist heir (mostly). Still, I accept that Louis Philippe would likely be the next king, but I really think the carousel has much more dramatic potential.

I also have a sneaking suspicion that Charles would be better for France in the long run.

I started thinking about this question in the context of the American Revolution, so I’d like to throw that question out. Again limiting the butterflies…How would the French deal with the American Revolution after Saratoga with either Charles X (the adult *Charles III) or Louis Phillippe I (Louis XVI?) on the throne?

I know that OTL, Charles III saw the revolution as a threat to his own empire but eventually joined in as co-belligerent against the English. Which way do you think he’d go as King of France?

Do we know anything about what Louis Philippe thought about the whole thing?

Again, thanks in advance for your thoughts,
 
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