Louis XIV of France and Louis of Spain Switch Places

What if the OTL successor to the Spanish throne (Louis) was not picked and the other Louis (the XIV of France in OTL) was? How would France be benefitted by a somewhat better ruler than his incompetent counterpart?
 
What if the OTL successor to the Spanish throne (Louis) was not picked and the other Louis (the XIV of France in OTL) was? How would France be benefitted by a somewhat better ruler than his incompetent counterpart?

That makes absolutely no sense. The OTL successor in Spain Was Philip Duc de Anjou, son of the Grand Dauphin. Louis XIV was a competent and capable ruler. Is this meant to be a DBWI and if so then label it.
 
what? :confused: Louis I of Spain was Louis XIV of France's great-grandson, Louis I was 8 when Louis XIV died and Louis XIV had been dead for 9 years when his great-grandson became the King of Spain in 1724
 
Something is mixed up here; the only king of Spain called Louis ruled for a few months in 1724, which was after Louis XIV (his great grandfather) was dead. Maybe you could clarify the question.
 
I think I got it wrong. It is whoever succeeded the French throne after the Spanish Habsburgs are gone and the successor to Louis XIv. Does that make sense?

you mean Louis XIV's Grandson, Philip V of Spain (or in France, Philip, duc d'Anjou) and Louis XIV has no claim to the Spanish thrown, his Son Louis Le Grand Dauphin and Grandsons' claim is from their mother Maria Theresa of Spain, Louis XIV's wife.
 
I think I got it wrong. It is whoever succeeded the French throne after the Spanish Habsburgs are gone and the successor to Louis XIv. Does that make sense?

Ah, so Louis le grand Dauphin (or was it already le petit Dauphin by this point? Louis XV?) becomes King of Spain and Phillip Duc de Anjou becomes heir to louis XIV?

That is not going to happen by any stretch of the imagination. There's no way the French are going to stand for interruption of the line in France.
 
Ah, so Louis le grand Dauphin (or was it already le petit Dauphin by this point? Louis XV?) becomes King of Spain and Phillip Duc de Anjou becomes heir to louis XIV?

That is not going to happen by any stretch of the imagination. There's no way the French are going to stand for interruption of the line in France.

Why? They are from the same family line.
 
Ah, so Louis le grand Dauphin (or was it already le petit Dauphin by this point? Louis XV?) becomes King of Spain and Phillip Duc de Anjou becomes heir to louis XIV?

That is not going to happen by any stretch of the imagination. There's no way the French are going to stand for interruption of the line in France.

le petit Dauphin, was le grand Dauphin son, Louis XV was le petit Dauphin son and le grand Dauphin grandson

though till his Father's death, Louis (le petit Dauphin) was the duc de Bourgogne, also Louis XV wasn't born till 1710, and is le petit Dauphin's second son, the first Louis, Duke of Brittany died with his parents in 1712 from smallpox
 
le petit Dauphin, was le grand Dauphin son, Louis XV was le petit Dauphin son and le grand Dauphin grandson

though till his Father's death, Louis (le petit Dauphin) was the duc de Bourgogne, also Louis XV wasn't born till 1710, and is le petit Dauphin's second son, the first Louis, Duke of Brittany died with his parents in 1712 from smallpox

Oh darn. Then in that case, did Louis XIV had any other sons in place?
 
ok to clear some stuff up

Louis XIV married Maria Theresa of Spain, older sister of Charles II of Spain, the last Habsburg King of Spain, making her Children the heir's to the crown

Louis XIV's oldest child was Louis, le Grand Dauphin (Dauphin is French of Crown Prince) he was the only child to live to adulthood, and the "grand" was a nice way of saying he was fat (also dumb)

le Grand Dauphin had 3 sons Louis duc de Bourgogne, Philippe duc de Anjou, and Charles duc de Berry

duc de Bourgogne became known was le Petit Dauphin after his father's death in 1711, and died with his wife and oldest son, Louis, Duke of Brittany in 1712, his younger son, just 2 years old, became Dauphin, after his Great-Grandfather's death in 1715 he became King Louis XV

Philippe duc de Anjou, took his father's claim to the Spanish throne, and became King Philip V of Spain in 1700, he fathered 3 kings of Spain, Louis I who he stepped down in favor of in 1724, till the young Louis died and his father took the crown again, ruling till his death in 1746, when he pasted the crown to his second son Ferdinand VI of Spain, who died childless and past it to the 3rd child of Philip V, Charles III of Spain

Charles duc de Berry was heir to the Spanish throne from 1700 till Louis I's birth in 1707, he died with out heirs before his grandfather in 1714
 
ok to clear some stuff up

Louis XIV married Maria Theresa of Spain, older sister of Charles II of Spain, the last Habsburg King of Spain, making her Children the heir's to the crown

Louis XIV's oldest child was Louis, le Grand Dauphin (Dauphin is French of Crown Prince) he was the only child to live to adulthood, and the "grand" was a nice way of saying he was fat (also dumb)

le Grand Dauphin had 3 sons Louis duc de Bourgogne, Philippe duc de Anjou, and Charles duc de Berry

duc de Bourgogne became known was le Petit Dauphin after his father's death in 1711, and died with his wife and oldest son, Louis, Duke of Brittany in 1712, his younger son, just 2 years old, became Dauphin, after his Great-Grandfather's death in 1715 he became King Louis XV

Philippe duc de Anjou, took his father's claim to the Spanish throne, and became King Philip V of Spain in 1700, he fathered 3 kings of Spain, Louis I who he stepped down in favor of in 1724, till the young Louis died and his father took the crown again, ruling till his death in 1746, when he pasted the crown to his second son Ferdinand VI of Spain, who died childless and past it to the 3rd child of Philip V, Charles III of Spain

Charles duc de Berry was heir to the Spanish throne from 1700 till Louis I's birth in 1707, he died with out heirs before his grandfather in 1714

So let say Philip decides not to be Spanish emperor, who else from the family would take the place?
 
So let say Philip decides not to be Spanish emperor, who else from the family would take the place?

I'd guess the duc de Berry, that was basically what was agreed to by Charles II of Spain before he died, it went like this in his will

Philip, than Charles, than Archduke Charles (the Habsburg claim)
 
So let say Philip decides not to be Spanish emperor, who else from the family would take the place?

to explain that:

as noted Louis XIV's wife was Charles II's older sister, Louis XIV himself was Charles II's Cousin, as Louis XIV's Mother was Anne of Austria, older sister of Charles II's Father Philip IV, now both Anne of Austria and Louis XIV's wife Maria Theresa had given up their claim on the Spanish Crown to marry French Kings, but in the case of Maria Theresa her renouncing the claim was to triggered by Spain paying her dowry, they never paid so it was thought she never really renounced, any ways Philip IV's will passed the crown to his Austrian relations, Holy Roman Emperor, Leopold I, who's Mother was Philip IV and Anne of Austria's younger sister Maria Anna, both Louis XIV and Leopold I hopped to get support by making it clear they would merge France or Austria with the Spanish Empire by putting forward junior members of their houses, the Duke of Anjou and Leopold I's second son the Archduke Charles (future Charles V)

to confuse things greatly, after the Nine Years' War in 1697 England and France agreed that, nether the Duke of Anjou nor the Archduke would be King of Spain, the title would pass to Leopold I's young Grandson, Prince Joseph Ferdinand of Bavaria, Joseph Ferdinand was the son of Leopold I's daughter Maria Antonia, she was the daughter of Leopold I and his first wife, Margaret Theresa who was Charles II's older sister (though the younger sister of Maria Theresa) as Joseph Ferdinand was descended from a female line couldn't inhered the Austrian throne, and wasn't a member of the House of Habsburg or Bourbon, sadly for the peace the boy died in 1699 the year before Charles II did
 
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le petit Dauphin, was le grand Dauphin son, Louis XV was le petit Dauphin son and le grand Dauphin grandson

though till his Father's death, Louis (le petit Dauphin) was the duc de Bourgogne, also Louis XV wasn't born till 1710, and is le petit Dauphin's second son, the first Louis, Duke of Brittany died with his parents in 1712 from smallpox

I knew he was le grand dauphin's son and so forth, but I couldn't recall exactly when the deaths occurred.:eek:

In any case, you're not going to have the first in line to the French throne give that up for the Spanish one, it's just going to happen.
 
I knew he was le grand dauphin's son and so forth, but I couldn't recall exactly when the deaths occurred.:eek:

In any case, you're not going to have the first in line to the French throne give that up for the Spanish one, it's just going to happen.

well idk if they'd give up anything, to wit, Philip V in 1715 said he'd wage war and invade France to take up his claim to the throne if the young Louis XV should die, and seemed very ready to do just that, I don't if he'd have been willing to drop Spain for France, and if he did where it'd go, his two heirs are very small Children in 1715 (Louis was 8 and Ferdinand was 2) his brother (the heir in the will of Charles II) was dead with out heirs and Archduke Charles was than Emperor Charles VI
 
well idk if they'd give up anything, to wit, Philip V in 1715 said he'd wage war and invade France to take up his claim to the throne if the young Louis XV should die, and seemed very ready to do just that, I don't if he'd have been willing to drop Spain for France, and if he did where it'd go, his two heirs are very small Children in 1715 (Louis was 8 and Ferdinand was 2) his brother (the heir in the will of Charles II) was dead with out heirs and Archduke Charles was than Emperor Charles VI

He was talking about a simple swap of line, the Kings of France get Spain and vice-versa. I agree that if that's even a possibility, then a simple personal union under the main line is far more likely.
 
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