Louis the Great dies before Casimir III

krieger

Banned
Both were born after Casimir's otl death. You need Louis to die between July and November to leave only Catherine, or die without children earlier.

You're right. So he dies between July and November, leaving underaged Catherine betrothed to Louis d'Orleans as heiress. And there starts the show, because Durazzo line could claim the throne (Charles of Durazzo was in Hungary at that time). Also Louis had a niece, Elizabeth and her claims could be quite problematic for regency.
 

krieger

Banned
Yes, Kazko would succeed, especially if the other Piasts sided with him..the better POD would be having Kenna survive..which would have given him a Lithuanian alliance.

Kaźko would succeed if other claimants didn't. And in 1370 Olgierd was still alive.
 
Kaźko would succeed if other claimants didn't. And in 1370 Olgierd was still alive.
I think Kazko needs an alliance Olgierd to reclaim Pomerelia (so he would need remarry to another sister of Jogaila again in this case) if he aims to get that and he would have more stability if the Mazovian and the Upper Silesian Piasts (who have claims to Polish throne in case of Upper Silesians, they are descendants of Kunigunde of Kuyavia and Mazovian Piasts being the nearest agnate of Casimir III) ally with him.

He can marry a Habsburg Princess..if he wants a Habsburg alliance..
 

krieger

Banned
I think Kazko needs an alliance Olgierd to reclaim Pomerelia if he aims to get that and he would have more stability if the Mazovian and the Upper Silesian Piasts (who have claims to Polish throne in case of Upper Silesians, they are descendants of Kunigunde of Kuyavia and Mazovian Piasts being the nearest agnate of Casimir III) ally with him.

But Lithuanians were looting Galicia and reclaiming Pomerelia was seen as a impossibility. And Silesian claims are worth nothing, Casimir excluded them from succession and they were commonly despised Czech vassals. At my proposed POD, Kaźko is married to daughter of Siemowit III of Mazovia. It should get him Mazovian help in claiming the throne.
 
But Lithuanians were looting Galicia and reclaiming Pomerelia was seen as a impossibility. And Silesian claims are worth nothing, Casimir excluded them from succession and they were commonly despised Czech vassals. At my proposed POD, Kaźko is married to daughter of Siemowit III of Mazovia. It should get him Mazovian help in claiming the throne.
He did marry a daughter of Siemowit III of Mazovia, Margaret IOTL....I think the Opole Piasts(who are Kunigunde's descendants) would defect from Bohemia in this case, since they married with Mazovia as well..

Of course IOTL the Upper Silesian Opole Piasts supported Louis I...which was a factor..in his succession.
 

krieger

Banned
He did marry a daughter of Siemowit III of Mazovia, Margaret....I think the Opole Piasts(who are Kunigunde's descendants) would defect from Bohemia in this case, since they married with Mazovia as well..

They could be friendly towards Kaźko, but they wouldn't risk devastation of their dukedoms by Bohemian forces. Charles IV is still around and sister of Kaźko (now Casimir IV of Poland) is his wife. I think that he would rather be friendly towards his Imperial brother-in-law, maybe getting something in exchange from him (as a annulment of any allegiance of Western Pomerania dukedoms to the Elector of Brandenburg, and instead making them the vassals of Polish king. Kaźko as a Griffin would be keen on solving Western Pomeranian affairs).
 
They could be friendly towards Kaźko, but they wouldn't risk devastation of their dukedoms by Bohemian forces. Charles IV is still around and sister of Kaźko (now Casimir IV of Poland) is his wife. I think that he would rather be friendly towards his Imperial brother-in-law, maybe getting something in exchange from him (as a annulment of any allegiance of Western Pomerania dukedoms to the Elector of Brandenburg, and instead making them the vassals of Polish king. Kaźko as a Griffin would be keen on solving Western Pomeranian affairs).
Yes, they would be friendly and allied with Kazko till Karl IV dies..although the Opole shifting suzerainty away from Bohemia can happen after Karl IV dies...since the Opole rulers still have some interests in Poland.
 

krieger

Banned
Yes, they would be friendly and allied with Kazko till Karl IV dies..although the Opole shifting suzerainty away from Bohemia can happen after Karl IV dies.

Not so probable. Wenceslas hadn't faced serious problems in first half of his reign. The chance is when Wenceslas would got involved in internal struggle with his family and nobility. But I couldn't see this happening.
 
Not so probable. Wenceslas hadn't faced serious problems in first half of his reign. The chance is when Wenceslas would got involved in internal struggle with his family and nobility. But I couldn't see this happening.
The Opole family still has interests in Poland, since we have Wladyslaw Opolczyk who in OTL allied with Siemowit via his wife...and he is one of the factors in Louis I's succession, but I think that might delay in a few generations after Kazko dies.
 

krieger

Banned
The Opole family still has interests in Poland, since we have Wladyslaw Opolczyk who in OTL allied with Siemowit via his wife...and he is one of the factors in Louis I's succession, but I think that might delay in a few generations after Kazko dies.

That interests weren't that strong and Władysław preferred Hungary than Poland. I think that he would fight for Catherine's cause ITTL.
 
My point is that Upper Silesian, Mazovian Piasts and the remaining Kuyavian, Wladyslaw the White both have interests in the Polish throne...since Casimir of Pomerania is known to be infertile OTL he will unite these claimants at least temporarily until they fight for the Polish succession after his death or after a certain point, Jogaila married his sisters to the other Piast claimants of the Polish throne...to prevent them from contesting his rule.

The Upper Silesian Piasts will not formally rejoin Poland until the Luxembourgs lose over to some other family in Germany/HRE like they almost did after the Luxembourgs weakened or when they regain the Polish throne, some of the Upper Silesian duchies got sold to the Polish throne which are Zator and Auschwitz.
 
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krieger

Banned
My point is that Upper Silesian, Mazovian Piasts and the remaining Kuyavian, Wladyslaw the White both have interests in the Polish throne...since Casimir of Pomerania is known to be infertile OTL he will unite these claimants at least temporarily until they fight for the Polish succession after his death or after a certain point, Jogaila married his sisters to the other Piast claimants of the Polish throne...to prevent them from contesting his rule.

The Upper Silesian Piasts will not formally rejoin Poland until the Luxembourgs lose over to some other family in Germany/HRE like they almost did after the Luxembourgs weakened or when they regain the Polish throne, some of the Upper Silesian duchies got sold to the Polish throne which are Zator and Auschwitz.

We don't know if Casimir of Pomerania was infertile. This is a mere assumption. Margaret of Mazovia had a son with Henry VIII with a Scar after Casimir's OTL death. And even if he was infertile, then his heir is obvious. His nephew, Sigismund of Luxembourg. If there is no connection between Sigismund and TO he should succeed his uncle easily. He is also elector of Brandenburg, brother of the Holy Roman Emperor, and heir to the Czech Kingdom. In scenario of Kaźko's childless reign Sigismund is the most lawful and the best candidate to succeed Kaźko. And we need to know when Kaźko will exactly die, because his OTL death is butterflied away.
 
We don't know if Casimir of Pomerania was infertile. This is a mere assumption. Margaret of Mazovia had a son with Henry VIII with a Scar after Casimir's OTL death. And even if he was infertile, then his heir is obvious. His nephew, Sigismund of Luxembourg. If there is no connection between Sigismund and TO he should succeed his uncle easily. He is also elector of Brandenburg, brother of the Holy Roman Emperor, and heir to the Czech Kingdom. In scenario of Kaźko's childless reign Sigismund is the most lawful and the best candidate to succeed Kaźko. And we need to know when Kaźko will exactly die, because his OTL death is butterflied away.

I think it might be unfair to judge him as infertile since his first wife died young before consummation.
 

krieger

Banned
I think it might be unfair to judge him as infertile since his first wife died young before consummation.

But it's You who said that he was infertile.

"Casimir of Pomerania is known to be infertile OTL"
I spoke against this assumption. He might or might have not have children in ATL, but it depends on circumstanses. We even didn't finish his granpa's Hungarian adventure so there is little to talk about this at the moment.
 
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