Louis the Great dies before Casimir III

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by krieger, Jan 9, 2019.

  1. krieger Well-Known Member

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    As the title say - what could happen if Louis the Great died before Casimir III, leaving only underaged daughters as heirs? The Neapolitan line would probably want to grab the crown for themselves and eradicate Maria and Hedwig. Casimir would try to claim regency in Hungary and to secure Poland for his grandson, Casimir of Słupsk.
     
  2. Jan Olbracht Well-Known Member

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    If Casimir is too busy with Hungarian affairs he would have less time for hunting deers, thus his death could be delayed, and considering the fact, that he had young wife at the time and their last kid was born just one year before Casimir's death, they could still have a son.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
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  3. krieger Well-Known Member

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    It is almost certain, that he would live longer. It is also possible that he could have a son. But it's only possible not certain and his heir at the moment is from legal POV still Mary of Anjou. With Louis around, Casimir could accept such a solution because Louis was powerful and his support was very important. But giving your country to the little girl with contested rights even to Hungary? That's another story and I doubt if Casimir would agree to this. He would rather name his grandson a new heir to Poland in case of him not having a son. Perhaps Casimir would make him even a prince of Galicia to secure support for Casimir of Słupsk among Polish nobility?
     
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  4. marcinL Well-Known Member

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    Or he gets an arrow in the throat while fighting somewhere in Hungary.
     
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  5. krieger Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that's also possible. That's why I think that Casimir III would name Kaźko his new heir unless his son is born before going to Hungary.
     
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  6. kasumigenx Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps having Bolko II’s son survive would lessen the succession problem of Casimir II, he does not need a son or name Kazko.

    Bolko’s son can be the heir instead..
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
  7. krieger Well-Known Member

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    Why Casimir III should prefer his Silesian nephew over his grandson? And this nephew is dead at the time of POD so there is no possibility of him surviving. That's another topic.
     
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  8. kasumigenx Well-Known Member

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    Why? His Nephew belongs to the same Dynasty as his and his grandnephew’s claim is superior over Louis I’s claim over Poland.

    Although if Kazko becomes king he has an alliance with Jogaila, as Kazko is his bro. In law, the kins of Upper Silesian and Mazovian piasts would have time to consolidate power on Kazkos reign.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019 at 8:12 AM
  9. kasumigenx Well-Known Member

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    I think Kazko can succeed if he is aided by the Piasts and Gedminids(his brother in law Jogaila) against Louis by having both Opolczyk, Jogaila and Siemowit support him, the only loser in this situation would potentially be Jogaila..
     
  10. krieger Well-Known Member

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    How so? Kunigunde was younger than Elizabeth, so her claim (passed to her children) is weaker than her sister's and her descendants. Kaźko has no alliance with Jogaila.
     
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  11. krieger Well-Known Member

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    But Louis is died at that topic. The POD is death of Louis before Casimir. So he can't succeed anyone. His daughters could, but without their father's reign no one would consider their claim seriously.
     
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  12. kasumigenx Well-Known Member

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    Jogaila's full blood sister is Kazko's wife...I think they would continue the Anti-TO coalition..so if he is the king the Polish-Lithuanian alliance would continue.
    regardless of the situation..

    Kunigunde of Kuyavia is the eldest daughter of Wladyslaw the Elbowhigh..
     
  13. krieger Well-Known Member

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    She was. Kenna passed away before Kazko could assume the throne. Kaźko would have to do something, if he wants to ally with Jogaila against TO. Although I would doubt it, he would rather ally with TO against Jogaila.
     
  14. krieger Well-Known Member

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    Elizabeth was older. And why Casimir would prefer his grandnephew over his grandson? Louis had a powerful kingdom, so it was understandable (but Casimir III still wanted Kaźko to succeed him and he gave him a lot of valuable lands in his last will). Bolko and his descendants have nothing but mere dukedom.
     
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  15. marcinL Well-Known Member

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    Depending on when exactly POd happens, maybe Kenna Joanna's death could be butterflied away?
     
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  16. kasumigenx Well-Known Member

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    Okay, you have a point in that, although the nobles might prefer his grandnephew who belongs to the same dynasty.
    Kazko would have a better chance to succeed if Kenna did not die prematurely but that is not a part of the topic, I think if Kenna survives, the Polish-Lithuanian alliance would only last until Kazko's death.
     
  17. krieger Well-Known Member

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    After birth of Hedwig and Mary d'Anjou, but before OTL death of Casimir III.
     
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  18. krieger Well-Known Member

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    They didn't care about dynasty in male line. They gladly accepted Louis, who belonged to the House of Anjou. And Kaźko could be considered a part of the same dynasty as Casimir III, because House of Griffins claimed descendence from son of Mieszko I and his second wife.
     
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  19. marcinL Well-Known Member

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    Both were born after Casimir's otl death. You need Louis to die between July and November 1370 to leave only Catherine, or die without children earlier.
     
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  20. kasumigenx Well-Known Member

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    Yes, Kazko would succeed..the better POD would be having Kenna survive..which would have given him a Lithuanian alliance.