Louis Joseph, Dauphin of France lives

Question for all you lovely folks out there.

Louis XVI, had two sons his eldest son Louis Joseph was born in 1781, but supposedly suffered from frail health. Let's say that he is born with a health constitution, and thus does not die in 1789, weeks before the revolution began.

He was said to be quite intelligent for his age, would he escape with his uncles into exile, could his survival see his family escape from Paris successfully? If not, would he be imprisoned, or possibly used as a figurehead for a new constitutional regime?
 
I doubt it would change much of what happened IOTL : he was far too young to escape with his uncles, and either the royal family somehow manages to escape successfully, either it doesn't (I'd think that an even greater equipage wouldn't help them).
If they do, then it's a successful Varennes TL where he would play but a minor role, if not then it's so close of IOTL that it's barely worth writing it.
 
I doubt it would change much of what happened IOTL : he was far too young to escape with his uncles, and either the royal family somehow manages to escape successfully, either it doesn't (I'd think that an even greater equipage wouldn't help them).
If they do, then it's a successful Varennes TL where he would play but a minor role, if not then it's so close of IOTL that it's barely worth writing it.

Alright interesting, and I suppose then that the chances of him escaping later on are minimal?
 
You mean, escaping after they found the royal family tried to escape a first time, and being under scrutiny of virtually everyone on a 50 km area to the point the assembly was probably aware if someone stumped its toe at 14:00?
It's not technically impossible : and that's all that can be said favourably about this, which doesn't fare well for such an occurence.
 
Alright and I suppose the chances of him then being used as a constitutional monarch are nil?
Not nil, but about the same that his brother had IOTL. That is, very slim : various political groups couldn't agree on what to do with the constitutional monarchy after Varennes and the attempt at removing Louis XVI out of premises by left-wing groups quickly devolved into "off with his head" after a while due to political situation.
 
I'm not sure that the period can be called that chaotic itself : or rather it's the chaos of its time that made Terror needed (or at very least seems needed) in first place for most.
It was seen as the only way to deal with (which wasn't that wrong) and, in fact, one of the causes of Comité's fall is that by 1794, they were actually cutting down most of the aformentioned chaos : it made both Terror seems less justifiable because there was less issues to deal with (especially with the chain of military victories)

The Comité actually attempted to actually apply the constitution and to purge people that felt free do kill and requisition everything in sight (as Fouché in Lyons, but it's true for virtually any représentant) at this point, with a return to a form of stabilization and law state; but it falled due to its own contradictions, robespierrist legalislm and because, frankly, too much people were interested politically to make most of the Comité a convenient scapegoat, when it came to their own skins.

Would have thermidor coup failed, you'd probably have some form of communal uprising, which I fail to see is going to change anything for Louis-Joseph or Louis-Charles.
 
Okay, and if the reign of terror had for example continued until around 1796, with there being elements of France falling into complete chaos, with foreign powers getting involved as well. What does that change?
 
How would it happen? Regardless conventional (as in the Covention) or not, situation *was* better by 1794 and it was going to continue as such if it does fold roughly as IOTL.
Not only it does ask how both childs would play a significant role at this point, but how the situation in 1794 undergoes a radical and complete reversal.
 
Well, how could one make the reign of terror worse? Does that require a far earlier pod?

Perhaps I should make a seperate thread as my intentions have now changed.
 
Question for all you lovely folks out there.

Louis XVI, had two sons his eldest son Louis Joseph was born in 1781, but supposedly suffered from frail health. Let's say that he is born with a health constitution, and thus does not die in 1789, weeks before the revolution began.

He was said to be quite intelligent for his age, would he escape with his uncles into exile, could his survival see his family escape from Paris successfully? If not, would he be imprisoned, or possibly used as a figurehead for a new constitutional regime?

Interestingly enough, his death - just before the convening of the États-Generaux - threw his dad into a depression (that he supposedly still hadn't snapped out of by the time he died), since he wanted to mourn as a father, but he had to act as a king, and he couldn't reconcile those two positions well. So, him surviving might see Louis XVI behaving differently towards the assembly
 
Interestingly enough, his death - just before the convening of the États-Generaux - threw his dad into a depression (that he supposedly still hadn't snapped out of by the time he died), since he wanted to mourn as a father, but he had to act as a king, and he couldn't reconcile those two positions well. So, him surviving might see Louis XVI behaving differently towards the assembly

Hmm interesting.
 
Interestingly enough, his death - just before the convening of the États-Generaux - threw his dad into a depression (that he supposedly still hadn't snapped out of by the time he died), since he wanted to mourn as a father, but he had to act as a king, and he couldn't reconcile those two positions well. So, him surviving might see Louis XVI behaving differently towards the assembly
I rather think that the death of his son (which was already going trough a long illness at this point : his death was hardly a surprise) pointed out Louis XVI's political weakness, not creating it. He already began to balance different institutions and groups against each other at this point, but being not as skilled as such hard game would require, it already failed and the Etats Generaux eventually couldn't care less about Louis-Joseph's death.

If something, Louis XVI not being able to blame his son's death for his political shenanigan failures may lead to a larger distrust.
 
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