Louis III Anjou, Lord of Four Kingdoms

krieger

Banned
As far as we know, Louis III Anjou, son of Louis II Anjou and Yolande of Aragon claimed thrones of four kingdoms - Aragon, Sicily, Naples and Jerusalem. However, he didn't have any control over neither of them. Let's make him succesful in taking his birthright. Say that Compromise of Caspe goes differently than IOTL (perhaps archbishop of Zaragoza, head supporter of Louis isn't assasinated) and Louis is elected in place of Fernando de Antequera. Than Louis could claim Naples like Alfonso V did IOTL. How this would affect the world? @Kellan Sullivan
 
As far as we know, Louis III Anjou, son of Louis II Anjou and Yolande of Aragon claimed thrones of four kingdoms - Aragon, Sicily, Naples and Jerusalem. However, he didn't have any control over neither of them. Let's make him succesful in taking his birthright. Say that Compromise of Caspe goes differently than IOTL (perhaps archbishop of Zaragoza, head supporter of Louis isn't assasinated) and Louis is elected in place of Fernando de Antequera. Than Louis could claim Naples like Alfonso V did IOTL. How this would affect the world? @Kellan Sullivan

Ae you psychic? Cause I was wondering the same thing just last night ;)

Well, to paraphrase @Kurt_Steiner, that means Fernando de Antequera is going to stay as a Castilian prince du sang which will cause all sorts of fun and games to happen in Castile.
That said, if one looks at the Compromise of Caspe in 1412 each of the candidates is problematic:
Fernando is 32yo, married with 5 sons. He's Castilian though, which I'm guessing didn't make all the Aragonese warm and fuzzy
The duque of Gandia is an octagenarian, and has no (legitimate)kids of his own, his heir is his brother (who died 2 years after Caspe anyway), but both their claims are pretty distant by comparison to the other candidates
The count of Urgell is the same age as Fernando de Antequera. But he has no sons by Caspe, and despite having one, that only son died young (in 1422).
Louis d'Anjou was all of 9yo. His mother would likely be regent. And given how she went about business in France, this could be pretty interesting to say the least.

England doesn't want France getting their hooks into Aragon, since it would threaten not only the English holdings in Aquitaine (IIRC if there was anything left) but also the traditional English allies of Castile and Portugal (both of whose queens were sisters to Henry IV). France in 1412 or 1413 isn't really in a position to project power of any sort (but I could be wrong). There's no one in Paris (as it were) to back Anjou (which I feel is going to be important, going forward).

But removing the archbishop of Zaragoza can probably help Louis' cause. TBH, compared with the other candidates - except Antequera - Louis is the best of a bunch of bad options. He's 9yo, so he can still be "formed", he has two brothers as heir. And a marriage between Fernando's daughter or niece and Louis could easily be arranged (Yolande, duchesse d'Anjou and her mother, Violante of Bar, attempted to arrange a marriage between Louis and Marie d'Anjou (OTL queen of France) and two of Fernando's kids (Alfonso V and his sister) shortly after Caspe IIRC).

Sorry, if I'm flying by the seat of my pants with a bunch of this stuff.
@LSCatilina @isabella @Zulfurium @jeandebueil
 
Having a French as king wouldn't be better than having a Castillian one. The French Crusade of 1285 hadn't helped to ease Aragonese and French relations, to be true. But, if we remove Urgell as a candidate, Louis is the best placed to get the throne, provided that Antequera doesn't mind.

Anyway, if Louis becomes king of Aragon, it would go a bit like Alfonso V, the son of Fernando de Antequera. A distant king... well, good luck with that.
 

krieger

Banned
Ae you psychic? Cause I was wondering the same thing just last night ;)

Well, to paraphrase @Kurt_Steiner, that means Fernando de Antequera is going to stay as a Castilian prince du sang which will cause all sorts of fun and games to happen in Castile.
That said, if one looks at the Compromise of Caspe in 1412 each of the candidates is problematic:
Fernando is 32yo, married with 5 sons. He's Castilian though, which I'm guessing didn't make all the Aragonese warm and fuzzy
The duque of Gandia is an octagenarian, and has no (legitimate)kids of his own, his heir is his brother (who died 2 years after Caspe anyway), but both their claims are pretty distant by comparison to the other candidates
The count of Urgell is the same age as Fernando de Antequera. But he has no sons by Caspe, and despite having one, that only son died young (in 1422).
Louis d'Anjou was all of 9yo. His mother would likely be regent. And given how she went about business in France, this could be pretty interesting to say the least.

England doesn't want France getting their hooks into Aragon, since it would threaten not only the English holdings in Aquitaine (IIRC if there was anything left) but also the traditional English allies of Castile and Portugal (both of whose queens were sisters to Henry IV). France in 1412 or 1413 isn't really in a position to project power of any sort (but I could be wrong). There's no one in Paris (as it were) to back Anjou (which I feel is going to be important, going forward).

But removing the archbishop of Zaragoza can probably help Louis' cause. TBH, compared with the other candidates - except Antequera - Louis is the best of a bunch of bad options. He's 9yo, so he can still be "formed", he has two brothers as heir. And a marriage between Fernando's daughter or niece and Louis could easily be arranged (Yolande, duchesse d'Anjou and her mother, Violante of Bar, attempted to arrange a marriage between Louis and Marie d'Anjou (OTL queen of France) and two of Fernando's kids (Alfonso V and his sister) shortly after Caspe IIRC).

Sorry, if I'm flying by the seat of my pants with a bunch of this stuff.
@LSCatilina @isabella @Zulfurium @jeandebueil


Louis, after getting the Aragonese throne could marry one of daughters of Jaime d'Urgell to ensure his rule in Aragon. His mother would go for the match. Maybe Antequera being dead will help Louis's cause? Say that Antequera is assasinated by Urgell supporter, like archbishop of Zaragoza was IOTL. This removes Urgell competition to Louis and at the same time weakens Antequera clique. It could lead to Louis taking Aragonese throne with his mother as a regent. I think that Anjou Aragon will support Armagnacs in French civil war. After all, they aren't on friendly terms with Castile, one of the closest English allies.
 
Why only four???
Couldn't he also claim the throne of Hungary? His claim would be distant, but compared to that Jerusalem claim, not that unreasonable ;)
 

krieger

Banned
Why only four???
Couldn't he also claim the throne of Hungary? His claim would be distant, but compared to that Jerusalem claim, not that unreasonable ;)

But to take the throne of Hungary, he'd need a camp supporting him, perhaps (if he's succesful at taking Aragonese throne and than Naples) he could be a candidate of nobles of southern Hungary in place of Lazar Branković.
 
But to take the throne of Hungary, he'd need a camp supporting him, perhaps (if he's succesful at taking Aragonese throne and than Naples) he could be a candidate of nobles of southern Hungary in place of Lazar Branković.
Some nobles may feel nostalgic about Angevin times, just like nostalgy for the times of Louis the Great, who was King of Hungary and Poland, was important factor in election of Władysław III.
 
What about this: James, son of John I of Aragon, brother of Yolande, lives until 1415, outliving uncle and older half sister, but is childless, and at the moment of his death his closest male relative is Louis Anjou, so even if Yolande is excluded, there is male heir old enough for the throne.
 

krieger

Banned
Some nobles may feel nostalgic about Angevin times, just like nostalgy for the times of Louis the Great, who was King of Hungary and Poland, was important factor in election of Władysław III.

Yes, but Hungarian nobles also hoped that Vladislaus will defend them from Turks. Poland won one of the most famed battles in these times against widely recognized powerhouse (TO) and Hungarians hoped that Tannenberg would repeat itself in fighting Turks.
 
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