Lord of Mountains and Emberverse Thoughts

[Malta]

WildFire http://www.ipinc.net/~kiers/SMSFanFiction/WildFire.html
FireBreak http://www.ipinc.net/~kiers/SMSFanFiction/FireBreak.html
Backdraft http://www.ipinc.net/~kiers/SMSFanFiction/BackDraft.html

Luke Hutton's Journey, though not finished, is good too.
http://www.ipinc.net/~kiers/SMSFanFiction/LukeHuttonJ.html


Well, a good idea would be to join the SM stirling yahoo group and poke questions but ai and ya that in the latest book in the series he has confirmed that communities elsewhere in California did survive-just incredibly isolated. I have been thinking a good idea would be to follow a group that seems like they will make it but turn of events sees them eventually die off or become eaters.

I've read every book and I prefer DTF the most because it is such more malleable. Civilization crashes and you see how it rebuilds itself or at least the beginnings of it.

 

[Augustus Montes]

WildFire http://www.ipinc.net/~kiers/SMSFanFiction/WildFire.html
FireBreak http://www.ipinc.net/~kiers/SMSFanFiction/FireBreak.html
Backdraft http://www.ipinc.net/~kiers/SMSFanFiction/BackDraft.html

Luke Hutton's Journey, though not finished, is good too.
http://www.ipinc.net/~kiers/SMSFanFiction/LukeHuttonJ.html


Well, a good idea would be to join the SM stirling yahoo group and poke questions but ai and ya that in the latest book in the series he has confirmed that communities elsewhere in California did survive-just incredibly isolated. I have been thinking a good idea would be to follow a group that seems like they will make it but turn of events sees them eventually die off or become eaters.

I've read every book and I prefer DTF the most because it is such more malleable. Civilization crashes and you see how it rebuilds itself or at least the beginnings of it.

Thanks for the quick response! I appreciate it. I will say, having them die off is quite different from what I had in mind, but I suppose if I wanted to follow canon to the T, that is probably what would happen.

To be completely honest, this concept doesn't have to take place in California. It could probably take place almost anywhere that isn't a death zone. I just liked the Tehama county idea because it kind of coincided with the development of the settlement I had in mind.

EDIT: Also, I am bothered by the way Sterling presents eaters. Why are they almost always nearly inhuman savages? Is civilization really impossible when cannibalism is involved?

 

[Malta]

Thanks for the quick response! I appreciate it. I will say, having them die off is quite different from what I had in mind, but I suppose if I wanted to follow canon to the T, that is probably what would happen.

To be completely honest, this concept doesn't have to take place in California. It could probably take place almost anywhere that isn't a death zone. I just liked the Tehama county idea because it kind of coincided with the development of the settlement I had in mind.

There are plenty of places enough. It is of course best if you have local knowledge so you know where you are writing about and convince the reader you know where you are setting it and the only local knowledge I have is in the center of the Eastern Death Zones.

Edit: well, truth be told the only Eaters we have seen are in DTF where they pretty clearly were drugged out of their mind from burning furniture that had chemical lacquer and those Wild Men in the east who are descended largely from what must have been children and young people that survived barely and largely grew up in a harsh, deadly environment of civilization crashing. Apparently to the point where it is normal to eat others because they did not grow up with any concepts that it is wrong.

Though, we do see instances of Eaters giving up cannibalism eventually like the Sherwood Men and some mention of the survivors on the East side of the Mississippi where they have given up cannibalism after re establishing trade with Iowa.

 

[Augustus Montes]

There are plenty of places enough. It is of course best if you have local knowledge so you know where you are writing about and convince the reader you know where you are setting it and the only local knowledge I have is in the center of the Eastern Death Zones.

Edit: well, truth be told the only Eaters we have seen are in DTF where they pretty clearly were drugged out of their kind from burning furniture that had chemical lacquer and those Wild Men in the east who are descended largely from what must have been children and young people that survived barely and largely grew up in a harsh, deadly environment of civilization crashing.

Though, we do see instances of Eaters giving up cannibalism eventually like the Sherwood Men and some mention of the survivors on the East side of the Mississippi where they have given up cannibalism after re establishing trade with Iowa.

That is the other frustrating thing for me. I've lived in Texas all my life, and its the only place I have local knowledge of. Another big death zone, unfortunately.

 

[Malta]

That is the other frustrating thing for me. I've lived in Texas all my life, and its the only place I have local knowledge of. Another big death zone, unfortunately.

Actually not so. We were having an discussion a month or so ago about better prospects for Texas. Stirling even mentions later in the series of one of the main characters meeting someone who came up out of Texas much later in the series TL. I'll see if I can post it later but the latest yahoo Groups update has made using it weird and eye hurting on an IPad.

 

[Meatshield]

There's places in southern Germany and the Alps that I would fully expect to be able to support MacKenzie/Bearkiller-sized groups.

I think a lot of the blank-spaces on the map and "nobody left between the Atlantic and the Danube, north of Italy"-type dialogue are the product of Unreliable Narrators.

 

[Augustus Montes]

Actually not so. We were having an discussion a month or so ago about better prospects for Texas. Stirling even mentions later in the series of one of the main characters meeting someone who came up out of Texas much later in the series TL. I'll see if I can post it later but the latest yahoo Groups update has made using it weird and eye hurting on an IPad.

Hm. Interesting. I just might see what I can do with that then. University of Texas would be the perfect fit for my group to come out of. Do post when you get the chance, and again, thanks for all the help.

There's places in southern Germany and the Alps that I would fully expect to be able to support MacKenzie/Bearkiller-sized groups.

I think a lot of the blank-spaces on the map and "nobody left between the Atlantic and the Danube, north of Italy"-type dialogue are the product of Unreliable Narrators.

That is another prospect I have only slightly considered.

Actually, this really gives me an idea. Though then again, I'm not at ALL familiar with Europe, so there's that, but I'd rather not let that deter me.

 

[Malta]

There's places in southern Germany and the Alps that I would fully expect to be able to support MacKenzie/Bearkiller-sized groups.

I think a lot of the blank-spaces on the map and "nobody left between the Atlantic and the Danube, north of Italy"-type dialogue are the product of Unreliable Narrators.

That's why Fanfic writers have stepped in with Author Approval to fill in for places like Italy, Colorado, Special Forces Leaving Kentucky, and so forth.

Oh funny enough they had a conversation about Reformed Eaters

Rereading "High King..." and coming across the passage where Rudi is reflecting on the drawbacks of "being raised by insane cannibal murderers". I found myself imagining, 20 years or so down the line, some groups of these Eaters trying to rejoin the human race as they see civilisation growing around them. Suddenly they're conspicuously primitive, like that cave tribe in ...New Guinea?... a few years back, who asked to come in and get medicine and houses. They're getting their asses kicked by every group of healthy, comfortable, organised people in the territory. And at some point, some genius in the third generation experiences a quantum insight.

"We tired of be bad guys. Tired of nothing but enemies and alla time sick. Wanna learn you people ways. Want clean."

 

[Augustus Montes]

That's why Fanfic writers have stepped in with Author Approval to fill in for places like Italy, Colorado, Special Forces Leaving Kentucky, and so forth.

Oh funny enough they had a conversation about Reformed Eaters

That is hilarious. Nice find!

 

[Malta]

Oh gods I hate the new format for Yahoo Groups, no wonder I no longer use this email account.

 

[Augustus Montes]

Oh gods I hate the new format for Yahoo Groups, no wonder I no longer use this email account.

Sorry to hear that. I guess that's why I stick with gmail.

I do have one last question, and this is kind of key to the development of this story.

How well do you think the hoplite style of fighting would work in the Emberverse?

 

[Malta]

Sorry to hear that. I guess that's why I stick with gmail.

I do have one last question, and this is kind of key to the development of this story.

How well do you think the hoplite style of fighting would work in the Emberverse?

Pikemen seem to be the proffered Spear fighting style, especially given the Knights of the PPA.

The style of fighting of course would also importantly reflect where you set it. Great Plains-Horse Archers/Heavy Cavalry but Iowa with its agriculturally dominated and large population was also dominated by infantry.

 

[Augustus Montes]

Pikemen seem to be the proffered Spear fighting style, especially given the Knights of the PPA.

The style of fighting of course would also importantly reflect where you set it. Great Plains-Horse Archers/Heavy Cavalry but Iowa with its agriculturally dominated and large population was also dominated by infantry.

Right. If I were setting this story in the great plains, the settlement's forces would have to develop cavalry wise, but focusing on northern California or hill country Texas would definitely see the development of infantry.

I'd rather not give the story away, but I think I know where to go from here. Thanks Malta.

 

[Meatshield]

TBH, I was always skeptical about the fate of Washington (State). Ft. Lewis (and McChord AFB) have the better part of a Corps stationed there.

The nature of the Change is such that the CG and I Corps/Division staffs would see the handwriting on the wall before the end of the first 96hrs, and would take steps to preserve their commands. There isn't enough time (nor any particular reason) for them to get scattered and lost inside Seattle-Tacoma, before the CG calls a halt to civil order ops and begins to march his command out to ranch country or the Coast to the West (good fishing and command of the coastal regions to the south and north)...

...ergo, depending on which direction the garrison marches, I would expect Yakima to be a highly-organized MilGov "nation", at least as much as Boise. Or a major power to be developed on the Washington coast, from the Olympic peninsula all the way down to the Oregon line. Neither of which would be anything Arminger would want to take a swing at.


"They marched into Seattle and died. The end." isn't very plausible.

Ditto for Hawai'i. There's really no plausible explanation for it not being a kingdom controlled by the successor organization of the Pacific Command elements. Oahu's civilian population might go down in flames, but the military personnel would be organized from D+1....and that's really the major divider between "died" and "survived". If nothing else, they could sealift (lots of sailboats on Oahu) the garrison to the Big Island.

 

[Malta]

There was mentioned of some sort of Mutiny at FT Lewis which probably explains why the military was unable to keep things together and I can imagine a portion of soldiers and family stationed there following Thurston on out to Boise.

All we get toward Hawaii is that the Big Island survived and that it is a Kingdom. Military elements were likely involved in preventing it from being swamped by Sail Boat refugees from Oahu.

 

[Meatshield]

There was mentioned of some sort of Mutiny at FT Lewis which probably explains why the military was unable to keep things together and I can imagine a portion of soldiers and family stationed there following Thurston on out to Boise.

Unlikely. That's a massive conglomeration of troops, from dozens of discrete units, plus tens of thousands of dependents. Mutinies don't work that way (especially in the absence of telecoms).

Too much implausibility in not having at least a few coherent large units staying intact. Not to mention that hanging together is the obviously best choice for individual survival. For the same reasons that the Bearkillers and MacKenzies prospered.

I understand the dramatic reasons for having no Ft. Lewis units survive...not wanting to have a massive beast on Norman's northern border (thus enabling him to bugger about into the Protector's War)...but the offhand "everybody died" handwave doesn't really work.

If Stirling really needed the PPA to have a "dead" northern frontier....he could have just had the Ft. Lewis troops march out to the north (up the Olympic Peninsula) and cross the strait to Vancouver Island (which would be a pretty solid base of ops....once Victoria went to pieces, which wouldn't take long). That puts them well off the map until well after CY 8.

All we get toward Hawaii is that the Big Island survived and that it is a Kingdom. Military elements were likely involved in preventing it from being swamped by Sail Boat refugees from Oahu.

It's mentioned that it's a "Hawai'ian" kingdom (read: folks from any ethnicity but Native Hawai'ian putting on a show of being "native"). No mention is made of the military......who would have come out in control of any surviving civilization in Hawai'i (not really an arguable point, either). So I'm guessing it's another "everybody died" handwave.


That said....with the appearance of the Japanese guys, perhaps Stirling is revisiting the whole "everyone between X and Y just died" areas (he had previously said that Japan was a total loss). It's not like he can't just say that Montival didn't have accurate information.

 

[Malta]

No explanation is given for the Ft Lewis Mutiny. Could it have been caused by starvation and dwindling supplies. Concerns over dealing with the Washington State Government. Staying in the area vs leaving the area. Perhaps some demagogue urges soldiers on to take over at some point. Perhaps even meddling by part of the Powers behind the CUT (and now the Haida and Juche fellows, which if we remember from the Sunrise Lands it seems someone was directing the Haida raid that destroyed the trade ship from Tillamook before it could set off).

Though it seems like we are about to see something go on with the Pacific,

I think that at some point it will involve Orlaith following after Rudi's killers so she hands over the Kingship to her Brother. I really doubt the next part of the series will see a clash of Montivallian Armies but perhaps Tasmanian navy ships.
My money that the powers behind the CUT are also behind the Bengali Hinduraj.

Also if we take into account the short story Ancient Blood the Mongolian-Chinese Empire is still thriving by CY100.

 

[Faeelin]

So where are these books going?

 

[EnglishCanuck]

My money that the powers behind the CUT are also behind the Bengali Hinduraj.

Also if we take into account the short story Ancient Blood the Mongolian-Chinese Empire is still thriving by CY100.

I'm skeptical of them being involved in Hinduraj, knowing Stirling we're going to see some Indonesian Muslim Pirate Caliphate rise to power and begin threatening everyone in the Pacific. His track record with Muslim forces as villains is pretty bad.

Also I haven't read Acient Blood, but the survival of the Mongol-Chinese Empire isn't very surprising. The Mongols settle down and become civilized but are eventually absorbed by Han culture, much like it was in our own history

 

[Meatshield]

I'm skeptical of them being involved in Hinduraj, knowing Stirling we're going to see some Indonesian Muslim Pirate Caliphate rise to power and begin threatening everyone in the Pacific. His track record with Muslim forces as villains is pretty bad.

His track record of having reasonable muslim characters is just as solid. The corsairs from Senegal were horrified to have been duped by the Evil Powers agent. Not to mention the muslim characters in Peshawar Lancers (including one of the heroes). This goes all the way back to the Raj Whitehall series, where, despite the Islamic country being the Big Bads....a lot of them were quite decent people (including the guy who took over at the end).