Look to the West Volume X: Eclipse of Empires
- Thread starter Thande
- Start date
Thande
Donor
I forgot to mention maps, I will need to update this (preferably not taking the whole thread to do so like last time...) So this is 30 years out of date by now but rather less has happened than in the corresponding years in OTL - decolonisation of India would be the biggest noticeable change on the map.
@Beatriz did an unofficial attempt at updating the map up to 1956/7 here: https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...-electric-circus.532570/page-30#post-24650310
Very good start!
I am going to guess that the Empire of North America takes up the role of "neutral great power" during the Sunrise War, like France in the Pandoric War and China in the Black Twenties. They have no reason to fight Russia again, there's been no references to a return engagement with the Combine, or even really any revanchism against the Combine which I guess can be explained by the fact that no one misses Virginia and the white minority doesn't miss the parts of Nova Africa that were lost. There's also obviously no reason to participate in the anti-Chinese alliance.
We know California at some point starts using China as a counterweight to the ENA so I assume China gains some ability to project power into the Pacific. Not sure how that comes about given Yapon will be Societist and the Phillipines are allied to Siam. Although China does have Formosa and Hawaii is Russian for the moment....
I am going to guess that the Empire of North America takes up the role of "neutral great power" during the Sunrise War, like France in the Pandoric War and China in the Black Twenties. They have no reason to fight Russia again, there's been no references to a return engagement with the Combine, or even really any revanchism against the Combine which I guess can be explained by the fact that no one misses Virginia and the white minority doesn't miss the parts of Nova Africa that were lost. There's also obviously no reason to participate in the anti-Chinese alliance.
We know California at some point starts using China as a counterweight to the ENA so I assume China gains some ability to project power into the Pacific. Not sure how that comes about given Yapon will be Societist and the Phillipines are allied to Siam. Although China does have Formosa and Hawaii is Russian for the moment....
Beatriz
Kicked
Makes sense - neutral Great Powers during *World Wars is nice. I’d also like to see alliances between the ENA and old world nations like Egypt etc for practical reasons
The Ryukyus are Corean and under Chinese influence so a vassal kingdom there is possible
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Thande
Donor
It was the main inspiration for the format, but the themes I would say are more inspired by Tony Jones' AH works (at least in the beginning). Especially Cliveless World. Early draft stuff was more similar to TLs like Monarchy World where there's a few great powers and more colonialism, but then I tilted it towards a sense of balance and fragmentation (which is somewhat present in Cliveless World, but different).
DoD and Monarchy World (and Puritan World, another TJ AH) both tend to focus on the increasing rise to power of one or more great powers - which is not necessarily unrealistic compared to OTL but can feel wearing to read. In LTTW, while you could say that is somewhat true of the Combine, I try to focus more on balance and the idea that yesterday's all-conquering superpower may be tomorrow's fading glory (or vice versa).
Personally I prefer the earlier volumes posts being from books. Felt more clear cut
I haven't been keeping up with the timeline for various reasons, but I wanted to say that reading it really changed the way that I approached alternate-history and writing in general and I wanted to thank you for that.
Or you could say, I blame you.
Thande
Donor
Thank you for saying so! I appreciate your help with past maps, I still have files in my LTTW folder labelled things like 'Hawkeye Awesomemap.jpg'
Beatriz
Kicked
Makes sense - although Silas Coldwine’s Anti-Draka features a primarily anticolonial Portuguese *South Africa and allies in a world of empires. Malê Rising is a good multipolarist timeline with a 1800s POD
Also, description of a wider set of areas including TTL’s colonies - DoD only vaguely covers colonized China, let alone Africa or other Asia
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I honestly don't feel like the Combine or Societism are the "unstoppable force" of this timeline like, say, the USA in Decades of Darkness. The Combine holds areas right now that are generally neglected in alternate history and tellings of RL history. Most of Indonesia and Melanesia, Central and large swathes of southern Africa, most of Iberia, all of South America, most of the Carribean, and the US Deep South East of the Mississippi. That's a big empire obviously but it's nothing like the OTL British Empire, the Soviet Bloc when China was still in it, or the current American Imperium. To say nothing of wanks like the Draka.
You can see why Societism is threatening, especially with southeastern Europe, an undisclosed amount of the Middle East, and either having gone Societist or waiting to go Societist. But it isn't all powerful
You can see why Societism is threatening, especially with southeastern Europe, an undisclosed amount of the Middle East, and either having gone Societist or waiting to go Societist. But it isn't all powerful
Beatriz
Kicked
Adfitionally, most of these areas outside the Platinean /South American core were underdeveloped OTL at this point and likely ITTL to some degree, and bordering hostile powers to boot, making it relatively weaker
Without getting into current politics, the OTL US bloc of NAFTA+NATO+Japan/Taiwan/ROK+Australia ties together the planet’s leading developed economies, and the British Empire had the White Dominions. Even most of the Warsaw pact is what we would call industrialized.
I don’t see a “West Coast” of the Combine, or even an equivalent to OTL Japan or Germany in the Societist bloc although Danubia and possibly the Eternal State are industrialized
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Beatriz
Kicked
Also populationwise, the Combine given OTL present figures would be around 6-700 millions.
Danubia would be 54 milions, the Eternal State (Balkans plus Turkey) around 120 millions and Yapon possibly 80-100 millions. All total around a billion, and 1/8th of the human race, and I assume pre-Green revolution figures for the tropics were lower
Using WW2 era numbers, around 285 millions/2.3 billion, around 13% of mankind.
Relatively less than the communist bloc although better power projection
Danubia would be 54 milions, the Eternal State (Balkans plus Turkey) around 120 millions and Yapon possibly 80-100 millions. All total around a billion, and 1/8th of the human race, and I assume pre-Green revolution figures for the tropics were lower
Using WW2 era numbers, around 285 millions/2.3 billion, around 13% of mankind.
Relatively less than the communist bloc although better power projection
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When the Belgian kingdom took over the United Netherlands in 1844, most of the colonial empire slipped away. The East Indies (as the Batavian Republic) joined the UPSA-led Hermandad at some point in the 1860s (I'm not sure whether Thande's established a more precise date).
Thande
Donor
Thank you everyone for the comments, they help motivate me to work on the next update even when I'm busy with IRL work. As do the post likes.
If I can ask one cheeky favour - please consider leaving a review of any of the previous volumes on Amazon (especially the latest published one, Volume VI, or the first volume - make it one of those if you can only do one). The number of people who review on Amazon is so small that it does make a real difference, for example, if everyone who liked the first update in this thread left a review for Volume VI, that would more than double the number of reviews and star ratings there are. It really does make a big difference for the algorithm showing the books to people and building a bigger audience, so I really appreciate you taking the time to do so.
(Amazon links)
Volume I: Diverge and Conquer
Volume II: Uncharted Territory
Volume III: Equal and Opposite Reactions
Volume IV: Cometh the Hour...
Volume V: To Dream Again
Volume VI: The Death of Nations
If I can ask one cheeky favour - please consider leaving a review of any of the previous volumes on Amazon (especially the latest published one, Volume VI, or the first volume - make it one of those if you can only do one). The number of people who review on Amazon is so small that it does make a real difference, for example, if everyone who liked the first update in this thread left a review for Volume VI, that would more than double the number of reviews and star ratings there are. It really does make a big difference for the algorithm showing the books to people and building a bigger audience, so I really appreciate you taking the time to do so.
(Amazon links)
Volume I: Diverge and Conquer
Volume II: Uncharted Territory
Volume III: Equal and Opposite Reactions
Volume IV: Cometh the Hour...
Volume V: To Dream Again
Volume VI: The Death of Nations
Will do.
Also of note Societist Central Africa, South America and Indonesia would have higher populations than OTL with Alfarus introducing an early Green Revolution of chemistry and mass forest clearing in the tropics leading to massive population explosions in Africa and Indonesia while South America had more people than OTL already due to the volume of immigration to the UPSA.
Also of note Societist Central Africa, South America and Indonesia would have higher populations than OTL with Alfarus introducing an early Green Revolution of chemistry and mass forest clearing in the tropics leading to massive population explosions in Africa and Indonesia while South America had more people than OTL already due to the volume of immigration to the UPSA.