Look to the West Volume VIII: The Bear and the Basilisk

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Canuck Wingnut

Mme. Mercier's thoughts here really help to emphasize why political theorists in the LttW TL view national unity as more critical to explaining national success or failure than economic factors. The French coalition is only barely holding together, the Russian Tsar has been assassinated- possibly just before all his enemies would have fallen apart, unless Russia remaining determined to fight would have held them together- there's a lot here for Societist propagandists to have a field day with.

So, what will the proto-Diversitarians (I think this update has the first reference to a group calling themselves Diversitarians in the narrative proper rather than the framing device) find in this mess to support their theories? Pieces of how this plays in to the development of Diversitarianism seem obvious enough: the plague countermeasures being developed separately and then shared in order to create protections better than any one approach could have achieved alone, for example. But the Diversitarians will also have to come up with some explanation for how their independent cultures and celebration of differences won't leave them open to the disastrous infighting that the Societists famously take advantage of.

I wonder how soon the Assembly of Sovereign Nations will be proposed? And what powers its proponents will want it to have? (Not necessarily to be confused with the powers it will end up holding). I'd initially thought it would be an ad hoc method of managing conflict in a world where the propaganda of the major powers celebrated all kinds of difference and the maintenance of historical memory- including old grudges. But now I'm wondering if part of the appeal of Diversitarianism might include top-down management of internal conflict, and therefore require a body empowered for that purpose at the highest possible level of organization.
 

Nikhil15

Thande said:
From: “Europe - From Pandora to the Sunrise” by A. K. Dalziel and Alice Fielding (1980)—

Modern estimates suggest that the worldwide military death toll of the Black Twenties conflict in general was around 10-12 million, with as many as 25 million in plague deaths; separating the two is problematic, as soldiers or civilians might die from a survivable plague infection due to war shortages of medical supplies. Some argue that 25 million is an undercount, given questions over figures reported by some nations (and the Societists) and lack of data from the interiors of India and Africa.[19]
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It seems the black twenties weren’t actually as bloody as I thought they were. I’m surprised the death toll was so small for such a huge conflict.

It’s nice to see the beginning of Diversitarianism. Societism isn’t quite an existential threat yet so it’s will be interesting to see what will happen in the Sunrise war to allow the Societist and Diversitarian to become equals.
 

Leonidas

Great end to a great volume! I hope your break proves refreshing to you, and as I've said before, I think the sections with Markus Garzius are great narrative-wise. If you have the time to whip up a map for the global situation at the end of this update, I'd love to see that as well. I've been working on my own worlda version based on those made by others for previous volumes, but it's hard to fully visualize all the changes. "Conisbrough" is particularly tricky to depict on a map that small, although I must say I find the idea delicious from an alternate history-enjoying perspective. Kind of surprised they didn't just go for "Kingsbrough" or "Kingsbury" and get a more literal translation, but such things are mere trifles in the face of English East Prussia (or maybe not, in this world of hyperdifferentiated cultural signifiers? We'll just have to wait and see.)

There were some interesting hints towards Carolina's modern-day status, like the segregated media, although if they're willing to have separate court systems as was mentioned awhile ago, I can't say I'm surprised they'd go that far to promote diversitarian values after the "National Coma." Although you could maybe make an argument for it on the grounds of promoting all cultures equally rather than having them subsumed by a monolith that creates systemic disadvantages (e.g. colorism against darker-skinned actors and nonexistent or stereotypical representation of minority groups in media), I don't think this kind of enforced separation and the implicit message that mixing too closely with other races is dangerous would be a net-good even if it's truly done with the best of intentions. Hopefully this system has its critics in the world of LTTW, although the idea that their equivalent of the civil rights movement might be tarred as crypto-societists for wanting integration is stomach-churning. A lot of the background for this depends on Combine policy in Carolina—they're clearly much more progressive with regards to interracial couples as Markus Garzius' writings attest, but would they go for Paraguay-style enforced miscegenation? Either way, there's probably pressure now for multiracial people to identify with only one aspect of their background to ensure that there aren't any blips in the diversitarians' "separate but equal" agenda.

Speaking of Carolina, maybe the ENA could rename Wragg Province to Ouachita? The Ouachita River runs right through the middle of it, and the etymology is a French spelling of a Caddo word and thus would make sense for a region with much surviving Louisianan culture. I'd contemplated the prospect of just naming the province "Louisiana," but it seems less sensible than having that term survive as a general name for the region the Grand Duchy formerly encompassed (Wragg/Ouachita/???, Trinity, Ruddiland, eastern Nueva Irlanda, and of course Nouvelle-Orleans). Just a thought from a map enthusiast :)
 
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Umbric Man

Umbric Man

Leonidas said:
Great end to a great volume! I hope your break proves refreshing to you, and as I've said before, I think the sections with Markus Garzius are great narrative-wise. If you have the time to whip up a map for the global situation at the end of this update, I'd love to see that as well. I've been working on my own worlda version based on those made by others for previous volumes, but it's hard to fully visualize all the changes. "Conisbrough" is particularly tricky to depict on a map that small, although I must say I find the idea delicious from an alternate history-enjoying perspective. Kind of surprised they didn't just go for "Kingsbrough" or "Kingsbury" and get a more literal translation, but such things are mere trifles in the face of English East Prussia (or maybe not, in this world of hyperdifferentiated cultural signifiers? We'll just have to wait and see.)
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I believe Thande hails from or about Doncaster, and a "Conisbrough" exists nearby - and its etymology is indeed an alternate form of "Kingsbury" but just as direct an evolution from Old English as "Kingsbury" is.

Leonidas said:
Speaking of Carolina, maybe the ENA could rename Wragg Province to Ouachita? The Ouachita River runs right through the middle of it, and the etymology is a French spelling of a Caddo word and thus would make sense for a region with much surviving Louisianan culture. I'd contemplated the prospect of just naming the province "Louisiana," but it seems less sensible than having that term survive as a general name for the region the Grand Duchy formerly encompassed (Wragg/Ouachita/???, Trinity, Ruddiland, eastern Nueva Irlanda, and of course Nouvelle-Orleans). Just a thought from a map enthusiast :)
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Fully agreed on a renaming as a fellow place-name hobbyist, though I can see it being "Washita" in that case - it's an OTL spelling and an anglicization of the Frenchified Amerindian no worse than "Ozark", "Arkansaw", "Shicago" or even colonial "Delaware" from "Aux Arks", "Arkansas", "Chicago(u)", and "De La Guerre/Warr" are from reality, whether or not the anglicization stuck around (Ozark, Delaware) or not (Arkansaw, Shicago). And of course, the ENA is ultimately an Anglo majority, Anglophilic nation so of course it would anglicize names as justly as a Francophone or Hispanophone or Celtophone New World country would to their languages.
 
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Nevermore

Victor Hatherley said:
I wonder what the diversitarian stance towards, say, interracial marriage is....
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As terrible as Societism is, as someone who is in an interracial relationship with a Black woman as a white guy (and who wants to marry her someday), the thought of Diversitarianism makes my skin crawl, especially with this latest update.

At least Societists would have to pretend to accept it regardless. Otherwise, I'd have to worry if Diversitarians would be willing to tolerate it in a kind of 'human zoo' sort of way or if they'd be willing to get physically violent over it.
 
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Fleetlord

Fleetlord

Nevermore said:
As terrible as Societism is, as someone who is in an interracial relationship with a Black woman as a white guy (and who wants to marry her someday), the thought of Diversitarianism makes my skin crawl, especially with this latest update.

At least Societists would have to pretend to accept it regardless. Otherwise, I'd have to worry if Diversitarians would be willing to tolerate it in a kind of 'human zoo' sort of way or if they'd be willing to get physically violent over it.
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Alternately, given the OTL high levels of intermarriage in the Native community, it could be that mixed-raced families just get lumped in with the "Reds".
 

Dathi THorfinnsson

Thande said:
Finally, in 1965 G. pestis was declared extinct, and the world rejoiced as one,
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Thande said:
some parts of the world are still suffering from the effect caused by the elimination of all rats on the balance of
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Nope. Not going to happen. Neither one.

In Alberta, rats weren't exterminated, they were prevented from establishing themselves. Yeah, there's occasional outbreaks when a pregnant female comes in on e.g. agricultural equipment. But those out breaks are stomped on hard BEFORE they have a chance to get well established.

It IS possible, with sufficient effort, to wipe out a small local, territorially bound population of rats. New Zealand has done it on a couple of islands, and Alberta springs into action with great fervour whenever a single rat is sighted.

But in a wider population? Look at what happened with rabbits in Australia. Several times they were almost wiped out (especially by myxomatosis) but each time they develop immunity/ defences, and the population booms again.
The same would happen with rats. Just as OTL, you'd just breed rats with better clotting.

What you probably HAVE exterminated are Ospreys and some Eagles (DDT doing nasty things to their eggs).

As for exterminating diseases. That's ONLY possible if the disease is (essentially) restricted to a single host. That's why Smallpox and Polio (and apparently Rinderpest) were possible. Plague, however, only attacks humans secondarily - it doesn't even make their primary hosts (especially ground squirrels) noticeably sick. So there's a constant animal reservoir that you can't wipe out.
Plague, is, in fact, endemic in the US SouthWest, but few know of it because so few humans get it.
 
Kylia

Kylia

You will recall from your school classes the importance of rebuilding our identities in the aftermath of the National Coma, lest we forget our distinct cultures and allow our oppressors to win after all. Let us separately celebrate our freedom to be ourselves, not ground into a grey and soulless mess that calls itself ‘humanity’. We are not Good Humans. Nor are we Americans, though we rejoice in peace with our neighbours. We are Carolinians, and – as White and Black and Red – we are who we are.
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As always, Diversitarianism is more than a little terrifying sometimes.

An excellent finale to this volume. Take your well-earned break, and we look forward to your return.
 

EmmettMcFly55

Very well done (although everyone basically getting a piece of East Prussia was slightly surprising). Look To The West is probably the greatest timeline I have ever read, and its attention to detail remains astounding. An amazing accomplishment, Thande. The fact that your chosen career is in chemistry and you also manage to be able to know and write so much history (including very obscure and counter-intuitive parts of history) never ceases to baffle me.

I do, though, wonder why if Heloïse Mercier thinks there's still something strange about France creating a republican state around Luik/Liege, the French didn't make it a monarchy after all - surely they could have found someone, even if, as she says, it's not nearly so much of a big deal anymore as it was a century ago.

Merry Christmas to you, too.
 

Analytical Engine

EmmettMcFly55 said:
I do, though, wonder why if Heloïse Mercier thinks there's still something strange about France creating a republican state around Luik/Liege, the French didn't make it a monarchy after all - surely they could have found someone, even if, as she says, it's not nearly so much of a big deal anymore as it was a century ago.
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I'm wondering if that area has a very strong republican current running through it.
EmmettMcFly55 said:
Merry Christmas to you, too.
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Indeed, a Merry Chemistrymas to you, Dr Thande.
 

Beatriz

Here is an unofficial map to track the changes mentioned over the course of the volume:
1640467513764.png
 
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Beatriz

Looking forwards, there are several intriguing possibilities:
  • Romulan Italy deciding to pull a 'fourth Shore' on an independent Tunisia/Algeria
  • Ottoman-Alexandria having a societist revolution first due to access with Spain and seizing Constantinople from Ottoman-Constantinople later by sea
  • Concan slowly drifting out of the French sphere and creating a NW Indian coprosperity sphere
  • a Scandinavian non-settler colony in *Kenya
 

Kriegdämmerung

EmmettMcFly55 said:
I do, though, wonder why if Heloïse Mercier thinks there's still something strange about France creating a republican state around Luik/Liege, the French didn't make it a monarchy after all - surely they could have found someone, even if, as she says, it's not nearly so much of a big deal anymore as it was a century ago.
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If I recall, the event that led Belgium into the Russian camp was the Mentian uprising in that area. Combined with both the republican entity during the Jacobin Era, and the racially purged effects post-Nightmare War, must be viewed as France doing something controversial, from a historical perspective, that no one cares about now.

Beatriz said:
Here is an unofficial map to track the changes mentioned over the course of the volume:
View attachment 705905
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Was wondering when someone would get this up! Some small comments/notes:
- Russian claims in the Caribbean should be American, presumably
- I believe China is now in control of Liaoning, and perhaps Formosa, following their deal with Russia
- Scottish and Scandinavian claims should border English "Conisbourgh" (still sad about no Kingsbury)
-Czechosilesia should be back under German control
 
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