We do not know about both Siam and Congo, there was suspicion both may end part of the Combine (also, I don't think we know anything about Johor's fate).
Look to the West Volume VII: The Eye Against the Prism
- Thread starter Thande
- Start date
We do not know about both Siam and Congo, there was suspicion both may end part of the Combine (also, I don't think we know anything about Johor's fate).
I think that the official Societist explanation for that is not that its a jerarquic order but just the chronological order in which they got to "liberate" the areas. Is highly implied that everything related with Societists already planning the order of the Zones is just Diversitarian's revisionism.
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It's also possible that they have changed the numbering system for the zones, or at least hadn't finalised the system until later.
Where is it implied about zones being revisions as that’s news to me
The Zones could have been re-organised. For all we know, Zone 14 was originally the Pacific Ocean, and has arbitrary bits of land along the Pacific coast of the Americas.
That is true, and indeed it is clear that Chile alone is far too small to be a Zone in its own right, if it is true that only 25 Zones cover the whole globe. Thence my suggestion that Zone 14 may include Patagonia and *Antarctica, but of course there are other possibilities (such as a Zone comprising Chile, Polynesia, New Zealand, and maybe Pérousie, who knows).
It has been stated that Zones are deliberately designed not to be self-sufficient, and I also expect on a general ideological basis that they are designed not to mirror existing borders and indeed to cut across existing polities. This is confirmed to a point since we know that the territory of former UPSA ends up in at least four different Zones whose borders would then cut across areas identifying as Meridian. So Zones that span two sides of an Ocean are believable on the basis of the info we have, also, otherwise, South America would have too many Zones already (four out of 25, with arguably potential room for a fifth one - which I guess to be called Zone 2, if it is there).
Wellll, I supposed that a lot of things were revised by the later historiography .The zones could be one of them
I think it's been established that "factual truth" is something which neither Societists or Diversitarians have much concern about, to put it mildly. Societists openly accept the Platonic Noble Lie, while Diversitarians emphasise individual belief (on the premise that it must differ between individuals), at least regarding history (but I think the epistemological rift runs deeper).
This TL makes truly a great job, as @Skallagrim wrote in the previous thread, in making a plausible, but utterly alien, intellectual environment in which, while the basic starting points are familiar to OTL, the dividing lines (not just in terms of political ideologies but also underlying philosophies and worldviews) are drawn along completely different criteria, and still remain credible (even if very strange) to an OTL reader.
The narrator here is by definition unreliable simply because for anyone writing anything relating to history from TTL, either Societist or Diversitarian, being reliable is entirely beside the point (although being believed matters, I'd guess).
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According to the map Scandinavia is already "struggling" to avoid becoming a Russian satellite soon after the war.
They showed no interest in helping Germany, and their presence did not cause Russia to divert enough troops to turn the tide. If I were a German politician from LTTW considering a future war, I would be asking myself if there was any reason to expect
If I were that politician, I would be for joining the Protocol. Doing so would cost little or nothing, it would oblige a large number of countries to help against a potential Russian attack, and it would give them an incentive to defend the status quo. If Germany were to remain outside it, I would worry that even if France joined, it would join alone, put a lot less effort into helping and, not having any specific obligations, it would be more willing to agree to a peace treaty in which Russia still gets some parts of Germany.
The IEF was a good deal for France which effectively got a large number of German mercenaries to die fighting for French interests.
Scandinavia only joined after Russia had gained the upper hand, and Belgium waited almost until the end of the war when it was pretty clear that Germany had lost.
On further reflection, I just realised one thing: Rosario (ITTL Zon3Urb4) actually lies on the same side to the Parana River as Buenos Aires (Zon1Urb1) and Cordoba (Zon1Urb2), indeed, it is just in-between the two on the main road and rail connecting them (which must be the case ITTL as well I guess, that route just makes too much sense. Furthermore, ITTL the roads and railroads on the Buenos Aires-Cordoba axis must have been the most critical lifeline of the UPSA, which begs for Rosario to be more important than it would be IOTL).
So my suggestion of the Parana River as a border between Zones 1 and 3 does not work... and furthermore, Zone 1 is cut in two right in the middle of its most important connective highway between its most important cities! I suppose this illustrates how Zones are really meant to be interdependent.
So my suggestion of the Parana River as a border between Zones 1 and 3 does not work... and furthermore, Zone 1 is cut in two right in the middle of its most important connective highway between its most important cities! I suppose this illustrates how Zones are really meant to be interdependent.
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First off bummer as I thought new post
Second we really need a map to keep all of this straight as I think some are just guesses on zones and urbs
The Zones and Urbes (?) I mention are specifically named in canon posts, but for now, much is left to guesswork.
I just wanted to take a moment to show my apretation and gratitude to Thande. In 2007 this was the TL that made me a fan of AH.com, as a Chilean a TL were my land is almost at the center of the world history was mind blowing, and opened a windows to learn, share and have fun that has been really important to me.
Now, 12 years later, Societism is here, and I cant not be more glad.
Now, 12 years later, Societism is here, and I cant not be more glad.
I wonder how this will affect how Latinos are perceived - might they be stereotyped as Societists In Disguise? I can certainly see that as a problem if immigration from Mexico to the ENA is anywhere near as prevalent as IOTL. And speaking of Latinos, what about Spanish? Would it be derided as the Societist Language (even though the Societists themselves are into constructed languages)? I know that wasn't the case with Russian, per se, but the hatred for Societism is also far more paranoid and virulent in nature. Thoughts?
Skallagrim
Banned
I think that those in outspoken opposition to Societism (and thus seen as representing their countries' "true", traditional culture) will actually be celebrated. See also anti-communist Cuban exiles in the USA in OTL, and anti-Republican French exiles in OTL Britain. It's not like anti-communist Russians in OTL are the only example.