Look to the West Volume V: To Dream Again

[B_Munro]

Maybe? I mean, the ENA are the guys who kicked Catholics of Canada and Cuba...

And we genocided the heck out of the Indians OTL. Anyhoo, kinda spoils the whole "Look to the West" theme if the ENA isn't the primary UPSA opponent.

 

[1SaBy]

'do whatever you can to do the best for as many people as possible without rocking the boat too much'.

That means small government?

Adamantianism holds that republicanism is a preferable form of government but not if it requires overthrowing an existing regime violently because that will ultimately hurt more people than it harms: so if given a choice to start a country from scratch Adamantines will build an Adamantine Republic, but if a country is already a stable constitutional monarchy (as with France) they will work within that system.

Basically it is a rejection of revolutionary radicalism, somewhat analogous to social democracy in OTL.

What about California? New Spain isn't a stable constitutional monarchy, so is the violent revolution justified that way?

 

[Beedok]

And we genocided the heck out of the Indians OTL. Anyhoo, kinda spoils the whole "Look to the West" theme if the ENA isn't the primary UPSA opponent.

Unless you're looking to the West in fear.

 

[Makemakean]

Stonor therefore went from being a commoner to a baron and then to a king within the space of ten years, a career trajectory that would impress anyone outside of William the Conqueror. Venezuela was locked into an alternative American economic hegemony now competing for the West Indies, centred on Imperial Cuba: if she had exchanged one whip hand for another, as Societist writers opined, then at least the Americans were a master who more greatly prized coffee and cocoa—and, eventually, oil.

Pff.. Now you really are pushing the bounds of plausibility. To have a guy go from being a commoner to a king in the 19th century is just implausible. There are cultural, social and political matters to consider, maybe this would work in the Middle Ages, but once you had a well-established aristocracy and alternative models of government, not the least republican, you can't just expect a guy to be able to command authority as king if he started as a simple-...

Right, that exact thing happened in my own country's history.

Bloody grandson of a French shoemaker...

 

[Faeelin]

And we genocided the heck out of the Indians OTL. Anyhoo, kinda spoils the whole "Look to the West" theme if the ENA isn't the primary UPSA opponent.

Native Americans are a bit different than whit(ish) Europeans-descended peoples though, right?

 

[Thande]

That means small government?

That's an anachronistic way of looking at politics in this era even in OTL, and it's not been a major crux of division in TTL. In LTTW most people are far more concerned about how their government is chosen than what it has the power to do once it is--or perhaps about the relative powers of different levels of government. Remember also that in TTL Malthus' thesis has not been widely accepted and Adam Smith's ideas are more obscure, though eventually popularised by Carlton.

What about California? New Spain isn't a stable constitutional monarchy, so is the violent revolution justified that way?

Exactly.

 

[Agatho]

the US has
E Pluribus Unum
you need
hmmm...
I WAS going to say 'E Quarto Unum', making the number ablative - but that is the ordinal 'fourth' not the cardinal 'four'.

So....
E Quattuor Unum
Maybe?

That would be correct, cardinal numbers past three don't decline in Latin.

 

[Makemakean]

Read the entire chapter now. Wonderful!

I'm reminded of Jimmy Carter's and Zbigniew Brzezinski's policies in Afghanistan, which were deliberately designed for the purpose of giving the Soviets their own personal Vietnam war:

http://www.counterpunch.org/1998/01/15/how-jimmy-carter-and-i-started-the-mujahideen/

Q: When the Soviets justified their intervention by asserting that they intended to fight against a secret involvement of the United States in Afghanistan, people didn’t believe them. However, there was a basis of truth. You don’t regret anything today?

Brzezinski: Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it? The day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter: We now have the opportunity of giving to the USSR its Vietnam war. Indeed, for almost 10 years, Moscow had to carry on a war unsupportable by the government, a conflict that brought about the demoralization and finally the breakup of the Soviet empire.

 

[Alex Richards]

Oh my- Carolina sounds like the worst combination of Afghanistan, the Jim Crow Era and Northern Ireland.

And the swapping of systems in the UK and ENA compared with OTL continues

 

[Ed Costello]

I'll be honest - good an update as that was, it didn't have the catharsis I was hoping for in seeing Carolina pwned. Nevertheless, I feel this is merited:

Hah! Suck it, racists!

 

[Thande]

And the flags of La Hermandad. That lozenge border on the bottom flag could use some refining, but you get the idea.

Note the recolouring of some of the flags to fit in line with Meridian norms.

 

[Alex Richards]

Ooh, very nice.

 

[Deleted member 67076]

And thus New Spain is resigned to being a piece on the chessboard between the Great Game.

 

[B_Munro]

Nice flags, Thande!

 

[Beedok]

And thus New Spain is resigned to being a piece on the chessboard between the Great Game.

Poor Mexico, never gets to be a great power for long.

 

[Thande]

Poor Mexico, never gets to be a great power for long.

I'm hoping Jared one day does that timeline he considered at one point (but did Lands of Red and Gold instead) whose point is to avert that.

 

[Lavanya Six]

And the flags of La Hermandad. That lozenge border on the bottom flag could use some refining, but you get the idea.

Hmmm....

 

[Fleetlord]

I'm curious what the official structure of La Hermanidad is, given that it's supposed to be a theoretical partnership of nations, but abolishing slavery was clearly Argentinian dictat. (By my count, at least 4 out of 9 members should've been a "no", and I can't imagine the South Africans being too keen either.) So it's now clear to the world that La Hermanidad is a Meridian Empire in all but name. I can't see any more countries voluntarily joining after this. (And that this hasn't become a cassus belli for New Spain has exposed how utterly collapsed the ENS is as a power.)

 

[Beedok]

Hmmm....

Illuminati confirmed as they say.

 

[Thande]

Hmmm....

You know what you're talking about, well done. This was indeed intended to subtly imply how the Societists metamorphosed from Flags Are Evil -> Plain Black Flag -> GREAT BIG HONKIN' CENTRAL SYMBOL.

I'm curious what the official structure of La Hermanidad is, given that it's supposed to be a theoretical partnership of nations, but abolishing slavery was clearly Argentinian dictat. (By my count, at least 4 out of 9 members should've been a "no", and I can't imagine the South Africans being too keen either.) So it's now clear to the world that La Hermanidad is a Meridian Empire in all but name. I can't see any more countries voluntarily joining after this. (And that this hasn't become a cassus belli for New Spain has exposed how utterly collapsed the ENS is as a power.)

You're quite right that it is effectively a Meridian Empire, but for many of these states being a client state of the UPSA is definitely the lesser of two evils considering other threats they face and that this is the only way they can get reliable access to international markets.

It is indeed unlikely that any state would voluntarily join if it had other options, hence why the UPSA's attempts to persuade California to join are falling on deaf ears.