Did the Portuguese revolutionaries lose a bit of Galcia and La Coruña as well? Is that one of the spoilers or did I miss when they lost those areas?
Look to the West: Thread III, Volume IV (Tottenham Nil)!
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Did the Portuguese revolutionaries lose a bit of Galcia and La Coruña as well? Is that one of the spoilers or did I miss when they lost those areas?
Well, the good thing about the format of TTL is that you can chalk this up to the quotes being from different history books by authors with different axes to grindI'm sure one could come up with similar "inconsistencies" in OTL based on history books--in fact I know I can, I could "prove" that William Pitt was both pro- and anti- something based on books I own.
Well...
That explains it, doesn't it?
Some people just do not seem (really) to care about Poland, inclusive the government of certain great power in the east whose global influence keeps growing.
Thanks.
See:
That suggestion of either Societist Danubia (or otherwise a Societist group in Danubia) is interesting. I guess the Diversitarians(sic) are going to have a token "evil" team-mate.
Danubia sounds proto-Diversitarian already with the pseudo-millet system. My wager is the Viennese School is a group of congenital contrarians who have no real influence outside the halls of academia. You know, like the Frankfurt School Marxists. They probably write thick tomes of impenetrable curmudgeonly prose that no-one actually reads, though in certain circles it's trendy to say you have.
Thande
Donor
I'm surprised nobody noticed/pointed this line out till now, it was intended to be a major 'WTF moment' for the reader.
And then you two have to spoil the WTF-ness with your logic and reason anyway
I was going to answer this but I see Grand Prince Paul II already did.
I worry sometimes that Russia's lack of action against Poland up till now isn't plausible, but my thinking is that the back-and-forth involvement in Lithuania and its importance in control of the Baltic has consumed the attention of Russia's policy in that area. That and the fact that until the 'Polish Question' just before the Popular Wars, Poland was tied to the rising power of Saxony.
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That explains it, doesn't it?
Some people just do not seem (really) to care about Poland, inclusive the government of certain great power in the east whose global influence keeps growing.
I'm sure TTL's Poland would be quite all right with Russia not caring about it. Since Russia still modified the border, it must have cared for some reason or other - and yet something stopped it from imposing significant changes. Simultaneous military efforts in Scandinavia, Lithuania and even California taxing Russia's economy seem to be the best explanation, but we'll have to wait until volume 5 to know for sure.
Not enough details and after Portugal's unexpected fall to Neo-Jacobinism another implied revolution in Russia is not a big deal.
Why exactly?
There is no inherited Russian desire to dominate Poland.
LttW's post-PLC Poland does not control any territories Russia cares about and Poland does not try to reclaim its lost empire either.
Poland and Russia are not ideological enemies and the Russian rulers have no influence in Poland to defend and/or expand and vice versa.
More importantly, Poland was not tied to a state that was Russia's enemy or rival.
Otherwise, the notion to weaken and control Poland would have some merit for the Russian government.
Poland had to lose its empire in Eastern Europe.
Afterwards, Russia lost interest in Central Europe.
Since my questions seem to have been missed (or is it that Thande doesn't like me anymore? Did I post THAT MAP once too often? )
Does this TL see more Islamicization of North India as a result of the Jihad and its aftermath, or is the Jihad essentially a short-lived storm that blows through and smashes a lot of stuff but fails to change the basic religious makeup much?
So the "cold war" in this world will ultimately be a mostly-unified Superpower Societist Latin America and allies vs Superpower Diversitarian North American Empire and allies (making Looking To the West what people do ATL as they did the US-Soviet confrontation OTL), with the Russians something of a third-party wild card? Where do the Chinese fit in? Or would answering any of this give away too much?
And is Bohemia joining Germany addressed somewhere? In terms of national identity - have they been more Germanized than OTL? Think of themselves as "Germans of Slav ethnicity?" Or is it just the German minority is larger and more firmly in charge?
best,
Bruce
)Does this TL see more Islamicization of North India as a result of the Jihad and its aftermath, or is the Jihad essentially a short-lived storm that blows through and smashes a lot of stuff but fails to change the basic religious makeup much?
So the "cold war" in this world will ultimately be a mostly-unified Superpower Societist Latin America and allies vs Superpower Diversitarian North American Empire and allies (making Looking To the West what people do ATL as they did the US-Soviet confrontation OTL), with the Russians something of a third-party wild card? Where do the Chinese fit in? Or would answering any of this give away too much?
And is Bohemia joining Germany addressed somewhere? In terms of national identity - have they been more Germanized than OTL? Think of themselves as "Germans of Slav ethnicity?" Or is it just the German minority is larger and more firmly in charge?
best,
Bruce
German Bohemias should be the majority in Wettin Bohemia thanks to the additional millions of Germans from Silesia.
Reading the TL, I'd imagine Northern India would have a larger population of Muslims by default. The process of social mobilisation wasn't changed completely by the beginning of the 18th century, and so you would have many Hindus speaking the same way as Muslims ("Bismillah" etc.) and convert, just as Noorul Huq (although he's a different case) has.
The Great Jihad might be the catastrophic event that stops the 'organic conversion' going on in the Neo-Mughal Empire; the events concerning the Mahdi certainly would alienate many recent converts, and his violent tendencies might have upset the traditionally Sufi-based Islam of Northern India even more than Afghan rule might've.
A map of India would be great to see, as I'd like to know where the Sikh territories start and end.
Hmm. Using 1925 numbers, Silesia (Prussian upper and lower) would be around 4.5 million of which no more than 4 million are going to be ethnic German, while in Bohemia-Moravia (1921 numbers) 6.86 millions of Czechs and Poles and 3.06 million Czech Germans. So probably a German majority, but a narrow one. Was there much immigration of Germans out of Bohemia before WWI?
You have to take into account that Wettin Bohemia does not include much of Upper Silesia (annexed by Poland) and two-thirds of Moravia (retained by the Austrian Habsburgs).
Most of Silesia's non-Germans lived in Upper Silesia and in Moravia Germans were a smaller minority (27,6 %) than in Bohemia (37,3 % in 1900).
Thande
Donor
As you say, it's not that I didn't see your posts, I just don't respond to queries when the answers would be big world-changing spoilers and also I might not have decided yet.Since my questions seem to have been missed (or is it that Thande doesn't like me anymore? Did I post THAT MAP once too often?
Does this TL see more Islamicization of North India as a result of the Jihad and its aftermath, or is the Jihad essentially a short-lived storm that blows through and smashes a lot of stuff but fails to change the basic religious makeup much?
So the "cold war" in this world will ultimately be a mostly-unified Superpower Societist Latin America and allies vs Superpower Diversitarian North American Empire and allies (making Looking To the West what people do ATL as they did the US-Soviet confrontation OTL), with the Russians something of a third-party wild card? Where do the Chinese fit in? Or would answering any of this give away too much?
And is Bohemia joining Germany addressed somewhere? In terms of national identity - have they been more Germanized than OTL? Think of themselves as "Germans of Slav ethnicity?" Or is it just the German minority is larger and more firmly in charge?
best,
Bruce
As for Bohemia--besides the demographics discussion above, bear in mind that in OTL at this point the area was generally considered German, German was the official language, etc. I believe when Jerome K. Jerome went to Prague in 1913 he said that bilingual street signs were a fairly recent phenomenon. A possible analogy might be how Wales was just treated as part of England until relatively recently, despite having a majority of non-English people who speak a different language.
Indeed.
Just an idle thought that struck me today:
I was a bit regretful about the "normalization" of the Iroquois, and the assimilation discussed. But the Kingdom of North America is going to end up the first great Diversitarian power. We've already heard about the celebration and promotion of Carolinian culture, for one. So actually, this may be one of the best timelines ever done in terms of the survival of Native American languages despite white settlement.
At this point angry Supremacists have forced open immigration into the three Iroquoian provinces (they're provinces, right?) and likely you have a lot of bigoted ideologues moving in and expecting the locals to pick up English. But honestly, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see their descendants fifty years later deliberately promoting Iroquois ceremonies and trying to pick up the languages.
I was a bit regretful about the "normalization" of the Iroquois, and the assimilation discussed. But the Kingdom of North America is going to end up the first great Diversitarian power. We've already heard about the celebration and promotion of Carolinian culture, for one. So actually, this may be one of the best timelines ever done in terms of the survival of Native American languages despite white settlement.
At this point angry Supremacists have forced open immigration into the three Iroquoian provinces (they're provinces, right?) and likely you have a lot of bigoted ideologues moving in and expecting the locals to pick up English. But honestly, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see their descendants fifty years later deliberately promoting Iroquois ceremonies and trying to pick up the languages.
I personally don't remember about any praise about Carolinian culture, but I'll be gladly illuminated. What I do remember though, is the Office of cultural homogenization in Carolina, so I don't know how this survival of the Native American languages will play out. But there is also the Superior republic, which could mean at least something.
It was less than ten updates ago, IIRC. Can't find it for you easily on this device, but it's from just before the beginning of the war. And more recently, it was quite clear that the OCH (or whatever) was a factor in Meridian, not American, Carolina.
Well, seeing that Adolf Frederick in this timeline's successor was Charles XIII (a ATL-brother of Gustav III and OTL Charles XIII) who didn't go through with a coup d'etat as Gustav III did (completely plausible, Gustav III's younger brothers OTL were nowhere near as skilled politicians as he was) with the result of the Age of Liberty continuing well beyond 1772, this desire to return to "the good old days" is a bit interesting.
During the Age of Liberty, the King was constitutionally a rubber stamp. And I mean that literally. Making a distinction between the office of the King and the person of the King, they at one point established in OTL constitutionally that even if the King personally refused to give assent to a bill the Riksdag had passed, the office of the King was constitutionally obliged to give said assent, to the point where the Riksdag actually had a stamp made of his signature and would just put it on any bill they passed as his own views were totally irrelevant.
I can only assume that when the Danish monarchy gained the Swedish crown as well, they managed to exploit the situation to have the constitution re-written (we Swedes have, historically been very fond of re-writing the constitution from scratch) restoring some of the monarchy's power, presumably after the constitutional monarchy of the Danish pattern.
Ironically, historically, the peasants of Sweden have been strongly in favour of a strong Crown, if not outright absolutism, as they regarded the King as their ally to save them from the abusive and incompetent rule of the Byzantine Riksdag, civil servants and noblemen.
So basically, in wishing to wind the clock backwards, the Stockholm conspirators want to restore power to an elected national assembly at the expense of the rule of a monarch. In that sense, it would probably not be unfair to call them quasi-Adamantine.
Hurray! Got my cameo!
Very much look forward to see what my character will do next, though I anticipate he may not have good things coming for him. The Danes will very likely probably blame his little revolution for causing a distraction that made them lose so badly...
Oh, that would be easy to explain away. Into the 19th century OTL, the Riksdags would occasionally be held in cities other than Stockholm. There have been Riksdags in Västerås, Söderköping, Gävle, etc. Often this was as a show of royal favour and recignition to the city, but sometimes it has more sinister purposes behind it. If you put the riksdag in a more obscure, smaller town, it would be easy to control the people coming in and out, and some kings liked to use this to keep their political enemies in check.
Anyway, I anticipate that as Alexander I did in OTL, the capital of Finland will have been moved from Åbo/Turku to Helsingfors/Helsinki for the simple reason that it is closer to St. Petersburg and thus makes Russian administration easier. It's probable that most Riksdags since the Russian de facto conquest have been held in Åbo and Helsingfors. However, since this does grant Finland-Swedish noblemen special favour and influence, peradventure it just so happened that they decided to hold a Riksdag for once in Sweden proper? And with Denmark engaged in war down in Germany, perhaps they thought that it would be safe to hold it in Uppsala, one of the most historically important cities in Sweden.
So, they're all assembled, and then... well, chaos.
Thande
Donor
I knew some of this, but the literal rubber-stamp is brilliant
There is obviously a comparison to be made with England and how the monarchy and the commoners would sometimes team up against the barons (one reason why some have argued it is questionable to consider Magna Carta as document forming the foundation of popular, as opposed to aristocratic, liberty). I remember adding an in-TL aside in a book over whether historians should group the Stockholm Conspirators with 'Populists' or not so the point you raise there is quite relevant.
I knew some of this, but the literal rubber-stamp is brilliant
Actually, while I have managed to dig up the Acts of the Riksdag establishing all of this as constitutional law, I must, much to my annoyance admit that I have not been able to find anything explicitly saying what particular material the stamp was made of. It may not necessarily have been rubber.
Gustav III had the stamp destroyed upon his coup d'etat in 1772. Not particularly surprising. If there ever was a physical object symbolizing the utter subjugation of the monarchy during the Age of Liberty, it was that stamp. But it's annoying, because it precluded me from inspecting it myself and trying to determine the material.
I will go into detail about this whole story for my lengthy, lengthy prologue for my Strangerverse timeline. Yeah, I know I've been promising it for years, but I am f*cking working on it and I have dozens of pages already written up, and...! Well, one day. One beautiful day...
Just because the Barons and Commoners teamed up sometimes doesn't mean the Commoners and King weren't teaming up more often. Now when Royalty and Nobility team up the nation suffers.
As for the final chapter, I very much liked the conflicting accounts of Pablo Sanchez last words, as I indeed appreciate very much the censorship, redactions, modifications and outright lies that appear in your history books. I think you're really the only one on this forum who have properly managed to make use of the fact that historians aren't omniscient, neutral objective observers, sometimes giving different interpretations of events. The three differing accounts of Pablo Sanchez' last words were therefore pretty good as the very feel of your timeline of there being people out there actively trying to falsify history.
In particular, I liked this part.
As a Popperian, I like the very special effect this (presumed) piece of pseudepigrapha by Raúl Caraíbas will have on the development of Societism. Whereas both Whiggish historiography and Marxism have traditionally been highly historicist in nature (The march of towards liberal democracy/communism is as inevitable as the fact that the entropy of the Universe will increase!), this little addition changes Societism from being (as Sanchez appears to have been) historicist to actually saying that there's no inherent law of nature dictating that humanity will move towards the Final Society, or rather, that is a special condition that only applies if you don't have "enough people interfering". Instead, it is something that must actively be sought. Very interesting.
In particular, I liked this part.
As a Popperian, I like the very special effect this (presumed) piece of pseudepigrapha by Raúl Caraíbas will have on the development of Societism. Whereas both Whiggish historiography and Marxism have traditionally been highly historicist in nature (The march of towards liberal democracy/communism is as inevitable as the fact that the entropy of the Universe will increase!), this little addition changes Societism from being (as Sanchez appears to have been) historicist to actually saying that there's no inherent law of nature dictating that humanity will move towards the Final Society, or rather, that is a special condition that only applies if you don't have "enough people interfering". Instead, it is something that must actively be sought. Very interesting.
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