Look to the West: Thread III, Volume IV (Tottenham Nil)!

[B_Munro]

"ever since Louis XVI had choked out his last breath on the floor of Robespierre’s phlogisticateur."

OK, I'm seeing Louis XVI slowly suffocating to death inside a giant glass bell jar, which probably isn't accurate ...

Bruce

 

[Petike]

My general idea was that the old administrative boundaries would continue in a sort of theoretical sense even as the actual apparatus attached to them is redistributed, sort of like traditional counties in some parts of the UK. Nobles need their titles after all, even if those titles start to mean something different.

I guess that makes the borders and number of traditional counties/comitates in the Hungarian monarchy quite a bit less static than in OTL (where the changes were more token and internal, with the borders and numbers being relatively static for centuries).

In part it was inspired by criticism of that idea by people who have pointed out the sheer level of intermixing across the empire, at least in major cities.

The devil is in the details, so it's nice you've acknowledged some of the issues with administrative reform in such a heterogenous multiethnic state.

"The king with the hat", I like that. I haven't seen Grenzer spelled that way before, where does it come from?

I read about that particular nickname in some piece of non-fiction on central European monarchs.

As for the Grenzers - my bad, it was just a goof on my part. Probably due to me revisiting my self-taught lessons of Finnish as of late.

I was hoping someone would mention that. I was going to delve into it more in the update but I thought I'd just leave it there as a hint. It is actually parallel evolution (the Austrians in OTL used Latin for some things for the same reason) but all the things you raise will be unintended consequences.

This I expected. After all, Latin was the lingua franca of the Habsburg empire for a long time. Even in the era of Austria-Hungary. And given the parallel evolution of the same idea already in place, with the administrative reforms similar to those of the Ottomans, it isn't really all that surprising. What amuses me is that people in LTTW are so quick to jump to conclusions about the intentions of certain countries, even if the similarity of adopted policies is clearly more of a coincidence than a deliberate move. Then again, OTL is no stranger to this kind of attitude and has quite a few of its own examples of "moral panic over perceived congruity of political systems".

As you point out, this is something which in theory is constitutionally sorted out beforehand, but in practice will be more difficult. The idea is that if a Hungarian wrongs a Romanian, the case will be tried in a Romanian court, and if vice-versa, in a Hungarian court. But most cases are more ambiguous than that, leading to either mixed setups or, often, appealing to the 'Other' federal courts as a neutral arbiter. An example, as you imply, of how what looks like a neatly worked out system on paper may turn out to cause more headaches in reality.

Yes, though they would have a federal parliamentary committee set up to look after their interests and a court of highest appeal. As you point out, they do get a bit of a rawer deal than the four main groups.

Obviously, no system is completely perfect, even the sincerely well thought out ones. Maybe the peoples from the "Other" category will receive an expansion of institutions representing their minorities sometime in the future... I'm kind of hoping for it.

 

[Blair]

My my the level of cartographic foreshadowing in this update is quite tantalizing to say the least, also happy birthday, I rather like this version of birthdays where you give us the gifts in the form of new content

 

[Googolbyte]

"WHO WILL BUILD THE ROADS?!"

Ah the old classic anti-libertarian argument.

 

[OwenM]

A belated happy birthday and thank you to Thande
I think Sanchez would consider this to be a step in the wrong direction for Austria, but right for most other countries.
This also made me think: what's the status of jus sanguinis vs jus soli TTL? I think Societists would tend to favour jus soli and Diversitarians jus sanguinis........
Come to think of it, that's a possible example of another political spectrum as Thande suggested.

 

[Petike]

I've finally started reading LTTW from the very beginning (seriously this time), and so far, I love it. The end of every second chapter made me go : "". In short, I like a lot of the clever plotting and POD-ing, but I have to particularly praise the quality of the writing. Though the chapters are reasonably long, they never bore and there's always something exciting or intriguing going on. That's no mean feat. I'm currently at the second interlude, where we get a brief first glimpse of citations from Societitst literature (courtesy of the multiverse agents).

P.S. Frederick is a very cunning bastard. His false flag operation was insanely ballsy, but he and his people pulled it off really masterfully. I did feel genuine contempt for Fred after he killed his brother in such a calculated manner.

 

[Ed Costello]

Interesting stuff. Donauland seems a bit more stable than the rest of Europe at the moment; I'm curious as to how long it lasts, and how it fits into the ideological landscape of the Quiet War (which isn't to say it'll last that long, of course...).

And thank you for the reverse birthday gift - Many Happy Returns

"ever since Louis XVI had choked out his last breath on the floor of Robespierre’s phlogisticateur."

OK, I'm seeing Louis XVI slowly suffocating to death inside a giant glass bell jar, which probably isn't accurate ...

Bruce

Actually, if I understand the process correctly, that's pretty much exactly what a phlogisticateur is...

 

[Alex Richards]

Actually, if I understand the process correctly, that's pretty much exactly what a phlogisticateur is...

Not really. A bell jar works on being able to completely remove the atmosphere, whereas the phlogisticateur works more on the principle of replacing it with an unbreathable one of Carbon Dioxide and soot.

 

[Thande]

Not really. A bell jar works on being able to completely remove the atmosphere, whereas the phlogisticateur works more on the principle of replacing it with an unbreathable one of Carbon Dioxide and soot.

Although I believe it has been mentioned that there is a type of phlogisticateur that works with a vacuum: inefficient but used as a grotesque means of public execution by particularly bloody-minded kangaroo courts during the Terror. Note that the term phlogisticateur has become a generic one for death chamber, even those that don't involve carbon dioxide (phlogisticated air).

 

[Ed Costello]

Not really. A bell jar works on being able to completely remove the atmosphere, whereas the phlogisticateur works more on the principle of replacing it with an unbreathable one of Carbon Dioxide and soot.

I stand corrected. Seems I have a mental block whereby I think of 'bell jar' as referring to its shape alone, ignoring its purpose.

 

[Alex Richards]

Although I believe it has been mentioned that there is a type of phlogisticateur that works with a vacuum: inefficient but used as a grotesque means of public execution by particularly bloody-minded kangaroo courts during the Terror. Note that the term phlogisticateur has become a generic one for death chamber, even those that don't involve carbon dioxide (phlogisticated air).

Oh good gravy. One wonders what the effects might have been on the British monarchy had instead of dramatic exit with a last message scrawled in the soot, the last sight of the phlogisticated king had been of a very battered-looking corpse in a pool of blood...

 

[B_Munro]

It all seems rather mad-scientist-ish.

http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20021125

 

[wannis]

Nothing much to say but a belated Happy Birthday!

 

[Archangel]

Happy belated birthday, Thande!


It seems that Austria-Hungary will survive (at least for a while), a good endeavour for a state with so much potential.

 

[Roberto]

Fascinating update. It's nice to see a stable Austria-Hungary analogue emerge, most TLs seem to focus on the different ways it can fall apart bloodily.

Ooh, teasers about the coming European cycles of war and peace. Let the speculation begin!

So we know the Unification War and the Patrimonial War will happen more or less at the same time, in Germany and Italy respectively. Austria seems to remain mainly neutral, which means either A) the war doesn't affect the Hapsburg Kingdom of Italy or B) said Kingdom will have completely separated from the Austrian/Danubian complex at this point. The trend seems to imply the latter, which jibes considering that at this point, Italy is basically only made up of the KoI, the Three Sicilies, and the rump Papal State, so it would seem that the conflict will be one between the two major powers over control of Rome.

"Patrimonial" must relate to the Papacy somehow, but I just don't know enough yet to extrapolate in what manner, specifically. The crux of the conflict will definitely be centered on the Papal States and will probably be waged by other, larger powers, but I doubt that this will be a resolution of the two opposing claimants to Italian nationalism. If it were, the war would have a name like "The Italian Unification War" (in relation to the contemporary German Unification War) or the "Great Italian War".

Onto the Unification War. From previous updates, we know that Flanders will be involved or affected, and as it's implied that Austria just narrowly escaped getting drawn in, it will be a Germany-wide deal. German nationalism is alive and kicking, so this war could happen a number of ways. It could start in the Saxon client kingdoms, protesting Saxony's domination of the Bundesliga and advocating equality for all Germans. Or it could start with Saxony pressuring Swabia and/or Bavaria into joining their league. Or it could start with Saxony trying to annex its clients... Etc. I'm sure Thande will spring something fascinating and unforeseen out of the left field.

So we know that the Great American War will have a theater in Europe, or at the very least involve some of the European powers. France is the most obvious contender, given Louisiana's precarious situation in the midst of Carolina's rumbles of secession, but Spain has a high likeliness of being involved too. I'm sure Britain will get involved somehow and make a huge mess of things, again.

All of that sounds exhausting, thank goodness we'll have the Long Peace afterwards. The nomenclature implies that it will begin after a vicious round of wars, which reinforces all of my baseless speculation. Hopefully after this the European political situation stabilizes some and industrialization really takes off, during a period of political development and consolidation.

 

[Admiral Matt]

Love the redaction, though I had to sleep on it to understand it. When I first read it last night I thought that word might have been anything....

 

[Alex Richards]

I wonder if the Great American War, Unification War and Patrimonial War all actually take place at the same time, being called different names in different places a la the Seven Years/French and Indian War. Perhaps the Unification War is the European theatre involving several of the same powers for different reasons.

I don't think the return of Switzerland will come in this round of wars though, that seemed to be much later.

 

[Beedok]

Right, happy belated birthday!

 

[Admiral Matt]

I was hoping someone would mention that. I was going to delve into it more in the update but I thought I'd just leave it there as a hint. It is actually parallel evolution (the Austrians in OTL used Latin for some things for the same reason) but all the things you raise will be unintended consequences.

Technically speaking, I believe the modern Swiss do as well, though obviously not to the degree seen here.

 

[Thande]

I don't think the return of Switzerland will come in this round of wars though, that seemed to be much later.

This was really just referring to the Bernese Republic, which at the time of the regency in Austria was not well understood and most people assumed it to just be the rebirth in a rump form of Switzerland, rather than having changed somewhat in character.