Thande
Donor
Basically this is just meant to reflect the names typically used in international discourse at the time: English sources normally used the German names for practically everywhere in Eastern Europe.
Look to the West: Thread III, Volume IV (Tottenham Nil)!
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Basically this is just meant to reflect the names typically used in international discourse at the time: English sources normally used the German names for practically everywhere in Eastern Europe.
Would it be possible to change one's 'nation' later in life?
Would there be different 'local' laws for Hungarians, Romanians, ect.?
If so, perhaps we could see some form of competition between the four 'nations' for Danubian citizens? Especially if Diet representation in Grand Diet was tied to population.
I assume Jews would be under 'Other'?
The proportions on the flag look a bit off to my eyes. Perhaps:
Would there be different 'local' laws for Hungarians, Romanians, ect.?
If so, perhaps we could see some form of competition between the four 'nations' for Danubian citizens? Especially if Diet representation in Grand Diet was tied to population.
I assume Jews would be under 'Other'?
The proportions on the flag look a bit off to my eyes. Perhaps:
Thande
Donor
Yes, I think so, although there would probably be wrangling in the courts.
Indeed.
Yes, although that's a discussion in its own right.
Are you sure it's not just your monitor or something, because your version looks stretched to me.
I think you didn't. The surname sounds so obscure to me, that's why I asked in the first place.
As far as I can see, you used 4 rectangles per quarter, whereas I used 6 squares. It's a matter of preference, but in your arrangement the central part seems too dominated by the borders.
Thande
Donor
Ah, the opposite problem
Apparently, Janós Irinyi was the inventor of the noiseless match and was involved in the revolution of 1848 (coincidence? bomb fuses?) At least according to Wikipedia, which I'm sure we can agree is nothing but an epitome of reliability when it comes to the nineteenth century history of Eastern Europe
Thande
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I think when I originally came up with this idea a few years ago (it takes time to get to that point in the story, just as I'm working on some stuff for the 1950s now), that was before I knew the Ottomans had basically the same thing as well.
Darn it! Thanks to the title of that post, I can't get The Sound of Music out of my head.
Apparently, Janós Irinyi was the inventor of the noiseless match and was involved in the revolution of 1848 (coincidence? bomb fuses?) At least according to Wikipedia, which I'm sure we can agree is nothing but an epitome of reliability when it comes to the nineteenth century history of Eastern Europe
Well, I'm not a walking tome of knowledge on surnames, so it's no wonder that this one eluded me.
Ironically, the Austrian monarchy's pragmatic choice of lumping ethnic groups together at least for census reasons has vibes of czechoslovakism.
Other than that, it seems the monarchy has come up with a reasonable and workable new system of regional and local administrations within the realm. I like the idea of alternating regional diets in addition to the federal one. If I may ask, did these reforms also affect the existing terminology and status for administrative units in the various lands of the Austrian crown ? Do they follow a new, standardized hierarchy and naming system, or have they just modified the old ones, at most ?
Alex Richards
Donor
Now that's a fascinating variation on the Usual 'United States of Greater Austria' theme that usually emerges in ATLs.
I concur. A thoroughly enjoyable update. Rudolf III. strikes me as inadvertently developing into an ATL version of Joseph II. (even the whole Erzkönig idea reminds me of how Joseph was commonly nicknamed "the king with the hat" or "the bureaucrat-king"). I hope the monarchy continues the course that he so stubbornly helped set up. The sociopolitical subtext behind the reforms of the musket and rifle regiments and the Gränzers are cunningly ennacted policies. Donauland/Danubia has a nice ring to it, though I hope that the traditional Austrian lands will still be called Austria even after the realm rebrands its official international name.
It is deliciously ironic that bitter former antagonists came up with essentially the same solution.
Is the version of 'modernized Latin' the Austrians are using in the rifle regiments have any relation to Novalatina (IIRC) in the UPSA? It seems likely that the Meridians would have at least heard of the Austrian attempt to use a revived Latin when they're creating Novalatina. It also seems like the kind of thing that could cause friction with future Diversitarians. If you're a Diversitarian with a reasonably paranoid outlook, a state using the same language as the hated Societists is bound to raise red flags. Excellent update.
The system Rudolf sets up looks really intersting, but I think it will cause a lot of complicated situations when put into practice.
For instance, how would a case between citizens of two different nations be decided? Would it be sent directly to the federal courts, or to the "other" courts? Or would it be heard before a mixed panel of judges from both nations?
Also if I have understood it correctly, the "others" have no diet of their own to make laws concerning them. Are the directly subject to the federal government?
For instance, how would a case between citizens of two different nations be decided? Would it be sent directly to the federal courts, or to the "other" courts? Or would it be heard before a mixed panel of judges from both nations?
Also if I have understood it correctly, the "others" have no diet of their own to make laws concerning them. Are the directly subject to the federal government?
Thande
Donor
Thanks for the comments everyone.
My general idea was that the old administrative boundaries would continue in a sort of theoretical sense even as the actual apparatus attached to them is redistributed, sort of like traditional counties in some parts of the UK. Nobles need their titles after all, even if those titles start to mean something different.
In part it was inspired by criticism of that idea by people who have pointed out the sheer level of intermixing across the empire, at least in major cities.
"The king with the hat", I like that. I haven't seen Grenzer spelled that way before, where does it come from?
I was hoping someone would mention that. I was going to delve into it more in the update but I thought I'd just leave it there as a hint. It is actually parallel evolution (the Austrians in OTL used Latin for some things for the same reason) but all the things you raise will be unintended consequences.
As you point out, this is something which in theory is constitutionally sorted out beforehand, but in practice will be more difficult. The idea is that if a Hungarian wrongs a Romanian, the case will be tried in a Romanian court, and if vice-versa, in a Hungarian court. But most cases are more ambiguous than that, leading to either mixed setups or, often, appealing to the 'Other' federal courts as a neutral arbiter. An example, as you imply, of how what looks like a neatly worked out system on paper may turn out to cause more headaches in reality.
Yes, though they would have a federal parliamentary committee set up to look after their interests and a court of highest appeal. As you point out, they do get a bit of a rawer deal than the four main groups.
There are also administrative functions that are inherently territorial in nature, like keeping up the roads and waterways. It makes sense to keep geographic counties for these functions, especially if - as would also make sense - they're under federal jurisdiction.
Yeah, but in civil cases, each party often claims to have been wronged by the other(s), and the decision of who wronged who is something the courts have to make in the first place. As you say, I'm guessing that these disputes will either spill over to federal courts very quickly or, if the federal system is overloaded, an informal system of mixed tribunals will develop.
Which means that all the minor nationalities will now agitate for their own Diets rather than their own autonomous homelands. And this will include the Jews - after all, if nationhood is no longer tied to territory, then dispersed peoples like the Jews and the Roma have just as much claim to it as anyone else. I admit that the notion of a Habsburg King of the Jews is strangely appealing. But this kind of proliferation, especially for the Jews and extra-especially for the Roma, is something that the big four will resist.
And happy birthday!
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