Look to the West: Thread III, Volume IV (Tottenham Nil)!

[Thande]

But then again, swans, so I have read, are rather badass birds.

They are. When I was at Cambridge there was one in the river who got nicknamed "Mr. Asbo*" because he kept attacking punters. They had to move him and his family to another river in the end.

BTW, the swans off this flag are just a duplication of the one swan on the OTL Western Australian flag: the use of the black swan as symbolism for the region is a pretty obvious idea in any TL.

*For those not in the know, 'ASBO' = Anti-Social Behaviour Order, a curfew stamp thing the Blair Labour government introduced to try and control young offender types, which has become synonymous with yobbish attitudes in popular culture.

 

[B_Munro]

Cool stuff...now how about a world map for 1850?

Bruce

PS - In some ways we must be grateful for the Bad Idea. Every cloud has a silver lining. Without the dark suffocating cloud of the Fever Dream, we might have missed those sputtering candle flames that might otherwise have winked out through our own negligence even without the malice of the Threefold Eye falling upon them

Holy crap. Is this new?

 

[imperialaquila]

Cool stuff...now how about a world map for 1850?

Bruce

PS - In some ways we must be grateful for the Bad Idea. Every cloud has a silver lining. Without the dark suffocating cloud of the Fever Dream, we might have missed those sputtering candle flames that might otherwise have winked out through our own negligence even without the malice of the Threefold Eye falling upon them

Holy crap. Is this new?

Well, he's clearly a Diversitarian writer, so the Threefold Eye is probably Societism. Maybe the Fever Dream is a reference to a major war between the Societist powers and the Diversitarian powers?

 

[B_Munro]

Well, he's clearly a Diversitarian writer, so the Threefold Eye is probably Societism. Maybe the Fever Dream is a reference to a major war between the Societist powers and the Diversitarian powers?

With the implications of confused thinking and murkiness in the term, a *Cold War seems more likely...

Bruce

 

[Nevermore]

I think we might do better to look at the Fever Dream as a metaphor rather than something literal, though it's admittedly vague. Maybe 'Fever Dream' is a mocking shorthand description of Societism's beliefs? Paulson is very clearly a pro-Diversitarian author (as is our author this volume). It strikes me that we really haven't seen too many alt-political smears like 'Red' yet, or at least hints toward them.

*Australia certainly seems like it's being set up like another *America, as it were. The hints towards East Asia have quite the influence are very interesting. One certainly wonders what that means, exactly. But one of the *Australian countries (Batavian Republic?) could certainly work out as a regional ally to Feng China, I suppose.

Despite the fighting with the VOC, it seems like the Belgians might actually pull something off with Maximilianstaad. I just...really couldn't imagine what that might be, considering how small their territory has to be. On a side note: Cygnia's flag is pretty damn awesome.

I also sense some Texas parallels with California and the Empire of New Spain at the moment, though that might be way off.

The talk about Indian laborers also reminded me to ask: any chance, whenever we go back to the subconitent, Thande, we'll get an update on the Neo Mughals?

 

[Thande]

I think we might do better to look at the Fever Dream as a metaphor rather than something literal, though it's admittedly vague. Maybe 'Fever Dream' is a mocking shorthand description of Societism's beliefs? Paulson is very clearly a pro-Diversitarian author (as is our author this volume). It strikes me that we really haven't seen too many alt-political smears like 'Red' yet, or at least hints toward them.

You're basically there. The Fever Dream and the Bad Idea are both Diversitarian euphemisms for Societist beliefs (or specifically describing Sanchez writing his books).

Naturally most of the writings the team are finding in England are very pro-Diversitarian in nature, hence why they are balancing this out by starting each segment with a quote from a Sanchez book.

The talk about Indian laborers also reminded me to ask: any chance, whenever we go back to the subconitent, Thande, we'll get an update on the Neo Mughals?

There was a bit about it in #151 which should give you an idea of what events there are leading up to...more detail will be given when those events come to pass.

 

[Incognitia]

The Great American War? Sounds messy. I'll get the popcorn in, shall I?

 

[imperialaquila]

The Great American War? Sounds messy. I'll get the popcorn in, shall I?

It sounds like UPSA vs Spanish America, Round II. Probably with the ENA getting involved at some point.

 

[othyrsyde]

Sorry if you answered this earlier Thande, but with the diversetarian sentiment of preserving identity, is there going to be a strong push to preserve minoriity and immigrant cultures or is this largely propaganda in an idelogical war with sociatism? Even if it is, you could see groups tying to preserve/revive the Indiens or other colonized groups rituals and religion, even if they're not in any shape or form of said ethnic group. Don't know if you're aware, but I've had friends visiting France and telling me about people who try and do Indian ceremonies to keep the culture going, since they think we're all dead. Individuals doing this is hilarous enough, but state sponsored efforts would have me rolling. And you could soooo see it given the riot reenactments of historical controversal points that was mentioned.

 

[Thande]

Don't know if you're aware, but I've had friends visiting France and telling me about people who try and do Indian ceremonies to keep the culture going, since they think we're all dead. Individuals doing this is hilarous enough, but state sponsored efforts would have me rolling.

That doesn't actually surprise me, you get similar attitudes over here. People tend to act towards American Indians as though they're somewhere between "fictional" and "real, but long vanished, and you can do as many stereotype jokes as you want because who's going to get offended, it's like Monty Python mocking the Romans or something".

And yes you're on the right lines as far as Diversitarian attitudes are concerned, at least in theory.

 

[Ed Costello]

What with this update and the previous one, it seems my wish has been granted I see we're starting to build towards the Great American War and the Great Jihad, and it seems the Riverine Wars are about to kick off too... Isn't it about time you started laying the hints for what comes after that, just to make us even more overexcited?

*Australia certainly seems like it's being set up like another *America, as it were. The hints towards East Asia have quite the influence are very interesting. One certainly wonders what that means, exactly. But one of the *Australian countries (Batavian Republic?) could certainly work out as a regional ally to Feng China, I suppose.

That could be... interesting, seeing as the Feng kicked the VOC out for opium smuggling less than twenty years earlier. Of course, that was before the whole 'Belgium' thing happened - but I reckon the Belgians are more likely to be welcomed than the Batavians.

It sounds like UPSA vs Spanish America, Round II. Probably with the ENA getting involved at some point.

Actually, given the hints in this update, I reckon it's going to involve pretty much all the American powers - ENA, ENS, UPSA, France, Russia, the Guyanas and Superia - and the whole 'blavery' issue is going to be quite important...

 

[Nevermore]

That could be... interesting, seeing as the Feng kicked the VOC out for opium smuggling less than twenty years earlier. Of course, that was before the whole 'Belgium' thing happened - but I reckon the Belgians are more likely to be welcomed than the Batavians.

Perhaps I should have specified that I was talking about the future. You're quite right that it seems unlikely at this point, with the above. But politics makes for strange bedfellows, after all. A few decades down the line, the situation in East Asia/Oceania could entirely, which indeed seems a likely outcome considering Meridian expansion in the area.

In hindsight, though, maybe the Belgians sticking their noses in does work out better. The fact they're not the VOC is already a plus.

 

[Beedok]

A few decades down the line, the situation in East Asia/Oceania could entirely, which indeed seems a likely outcome considering Meridian expansion in the area.

We are at war with the UPSA, we have always been at war with the UPSA.

 

[othyrsyde]

That doesn't actually surprise me, you get similar attitudes over here. People tend to act towards American Indians as though they're somewhere between "fictional" and "real, but long vanished, and you can do as many stereotype jokes as you want because who's going to get offended, it's like Monty Python mocking the Romans or something".

And yes you're on the right lines as far as Diversitarian attitudes are concerned, at least in theory.

My cousin once said, to most people Natives, in the States, are a fairytale race out of the American mythology of the Old West.

As for Diversitarianism, cool, thought so. Can't wait to see how weird the modern world will be.

We are at war with the UPSA, we have always been at war with the UPSA.

 

[Finn]

Fascinating stuff in this Australia! Maori Brisbane!

I feel like I missed a step regarding California having had a Gold Rush and a melting pot, was that described earlier in this timeline, and if not, what peoples made up the melting pot?

 

[Kitiem3000]

Cool stuff...now how about a world map for 1850?

Bruce

I could really do with a map. Normally I'd just re-read the whole time line to refresh my memory, but I'm afraid that by the time I reach thread III I will be back where I started.

 

[Roberto]

Interesting stuff. I like how Perousie is referred to as a nation even though it is still a colony at this point: that implies that independence is really just a slow drifting away from France, rather than a marked event or revolt.

Whatever happened to those hardcore Jacobins who fled into the interior and became a hybrid guerrilla army/Aborigine tribe?

Speculation about the Great American War: At the very least, we know it will directly affect the nations of Antipodea, so that probably means one of the colonizing nations will be involved. I don't see how Belgium or the VOC will be involved, so it's either France or the ENA. Maybe they're at war with one another over a conflict in Louisiana? We do know that Carolina will secede at some point, so that seems possible.

However, the UPSA could also reasonably be involved. They've recently moved into the Philippines and have a big job to do there about de-Spanishizing it. Meridian military will definitely be present, so if a war breaks out between them and either France or North America, they could be quick to go for the colonies.

Slavery is going to be involved, no matter what. The question is, how? The ENA is more or less trying to outlaw the practice, and running into opposition from parts of the southern Confederations, so its conceivable that we have a situation roughly similar to OTL's secession. Louisiana would be caught in an interesting situation here. IIRC, they're still big into the whole slavery thing, and are actively spreading it by expanding the New Orleans-based society into the interior. If the northern ENA is taking a hardline stance, there will be some rumbles in the bayou over this. Hell, Louisiana might get forced into the Carolinan camp. Which means France will probably follow suit.

That's one guess, I haven't thought about the ENS or UPSA in that equation.

 

[Shevek23]

Fascinating stuff in this Australia! Maori Brisbane!

I feel like I missed a step regarding California having had a Gold Rush and a melting pot, was that described earlier in this timeline, and if not, what peoples made up the melting pot?

I think it might have been mentioned in the course of the reforms of New Spain, or whatever the Spanish American empire got renamed when it was subdivided into subsidiary kingdoms; the northern one sent more settlers into California and found you-know-what some decades before OTL.

But it was a good long time ago in the timeline.

The more I think about it though the more I recall stuff about speculations about the ENA contingent of gold rushers. It seems the New Spanish empire has them well in hand though.

 

[Thande]

I feel like I missed a step regarding California having had a Gold Rush and a melting pot, was that described earlier in this timeline, and if not, what peoples made up the melting pot?

It was very briefly mentioned earlier: I'm doing that thing where I don't describe general stuff in detail until we come to a time when a dramatic event happens, and then I describe it in retrospect.

Whatever happened to those hardcore Jacobins who fled into the interior and became a hybrid guerrilla army/Aborigine tribe?

They're still around, just not there in great numbers since the Anglo-Americans took "Fort Surcouf" and turned it into Cochrane. The previous update was meant to say "here's a weird historical curiosity you might read about on the alt version of Cracked.com", not "they will play a significant role in the tides of world history". Like those Polynesians in OTL who worship American aircraft pilots, that sort of thing.

Of course now we have escaped American black slaves escaping into the same western Australian interior and also influencing native tribes, so that's a rather weird combination.

 

[Alex Richards]

It almost seems like you could end up with Inverted Linnean Racism- the blacker you look, the purer you are. Throw in a very egalitarian view on each class and...