Look to the West -- Thread II

[Thande]

I'm confused on what there for. Are they different levels of government? What does being in a certain Confederacy mean for a Shire? And how do they fit in with elections?

OK, here's a primer (I was going to write one before posting the election results but I forgot).

The ENA electoral system on an Imperial level (think OTL 'federal' vs 'state') is based on the British one of the period, but somewhat rationalised and standardised. Firstly let's just briefly cover the British system. In Britain there were two types of constituencies: County Constituencies, which cover an entire county as an at-large electorate, and Borough Constituencies, which consist (in theory) of large important cities and towns which elect MPs separately. In Britain there was no prescription against plurality voting, which means that if you lived in the borough city of Derby for instance, you could both cast a vote for the Derby Borough MP(s) and then another one for the Derbyshire MP(s). In the ENA however they have banned this practice so you have to be registered in one constituency and only cast your vote in that one.

In Britain the norm was for each constituency to elect two MPs rather than one: the candidate who got the top number of votes and the one who came second would become MPs. For this reason, the two main parties typically ran at least two candidates each. In the ENA, each constituency elects one MCP to start with and then a second is added as the population grows. In the ENA, the County Constituencies are replaced with Provincial Constituencies but it's basically the same thing. Each Confederation consists of a number of provinces (or shires) and city boroughs, each of which elect one or two MCPs depending on population. Once the MCPs go to Fredericksburg to sit in Parliament, which Confederation they came from and whether they were elected by a borough or a province is no longer important.

The Confederations have their own Governors (currently appointed but this will change) and devolved legislatures derived from the old colonial ones. These legislatures cover domestic business and their members are elected according to a variety of means--some Confederations use the same system as for electing MCPs to the imperial parliament, while others use a different one. There is controversy about how much power the legislatures should have, which is the Imperial vs. Confederal debate (OTL federalism vs states' rights, essentially).

 

[Analytical Engine]

And here are the election results in detail.

The trouble with the old "borough + county constituencies electing two MPs" system that the ENA uses in a modified form is that it's almost impossible to put on a map satisfactorily.

Bloody splitting of the Patriot vote.

I see you've kept that part of OTL American politics alive and well...

(Not that the parties in Britain weren't guilty of it too... )

No, but there'll be one of Europe coming along soon. I don't like doing world maps because there'll always be some part of the world I haven't covered for a while and I want to leave it ambiguous in case I have an idea for something that happened there in the intervening years.

Haven't you already done one of Europe? Not that I'm complaining, that is... (Or is there another one? )

One thing I don't get - what happened to Poland's fishtail (i.e. Galicia)? Did it get retconned out or something?

 

[Thande]

Bloody splitting of the Patriot vote.

Actually the factions didn't break up until after the election: the collapse of the Patriot vote happened despite a lack of rival candidates.

One thing I don't get - what happened to Poland's fishtail (i.e. Galicia)? Did it get retconned out or something?

I retconned it away because a Pole pointed out to me that Russia would have grabbed those territories for itself during the War of the Polish Partition. It's not actually Galicia, it's more like Ruthenia.

 

[Hawkeye]

OK, here's a primer (I was going to write one before posting the election results but I forgot).

Ah now I see (or at least I think I see). Thank you.

 

[Nugax]

Showing the previous tabular data slightly more visually:

 

[Thande]

Let us all give thanks to Nugax, the patron saint of visualisation.

Title correction (which I also put wrong on my table of data): this should be the 1825 election not 1822.

 

[Finn]

Okay, one thing that is confusing me, who exactly are the leading executive and legislative leaders of the ENA, not so much the people themselves but what are the actual jobs called?

 

[Thande]

Okay, one thing that is confusing me, who exactly are the leading executive and legislative leaders of the ENA, not so much the people themselves but what are the actual jobs called?

Well the ENA uses a variant of the British system so there is no separation of executive/legislative/judicial. The Lord President is the equivalent post to Prime Minister in Britain, he's the leader of the largest party in the Continental Parliament and acts with executive power. He appoints ministers (well, technically he asks the Lord Deputy to appoint ministers, but it comes to the same thing) which are drawn from his party's MCPs in the House of Commons or occasionally peers from the House of Lords. The American HoL is rather more progressive than Britain's because the ENA has only had two generations' worth of nobility so many of them are self-made men. It includes the Law Lords who act as the final court of appeal, but unlike Britain's does not include any bishops as the ENA does not have an established church. And the Lord Deputy is the King's representative who ostensibly wields the royal power, but in practice like the King himself doesn't actually use it: his major roles are to sign bills into law and to formally open and dissolve Parliament.

 

[Finn]

Well the ENA uses a variant of the British system so there is no separation of executive/legislative/judicial. The Lord President is the equivalent post to Prime Minister in Britain, he's the leader of the largest party in the Continental Parliament and acts with executive power. He appoints ministers (well, technically he asks the Lord Deputy to appoint ministers, but it comes to the same thing) which are drawn from his party's MCPs in the House of Commons or occasionally peers from the House of Lords. The American HoL is rather more progressive than Britain's because the ENA has only had two generations' worth of nobility so many of them are self-made men. It includes the Law Lords who act as the final court of appeal, but unlike Britain's does not include any bishops as the ENA does not have an established church. And the Lord Deputy is the King's representative who ostensibly wields the royal power, but in practice like the King himself doesn't actually use it: his major roles are to sign bills into law and to formally open and dissolve Parliament.

Enlightening, thank you. The British system has always confused me. Actually, until two months ago I didn't even realize the PM was just the leader of the party in power, something that should have been obvious in retrospect, but I'd always assumed he was independently elected, for some bizarre logic.

 

[Thande]

Enlightening, thank you. The British system has always confused me. Actually, until two months ago I didn't even realize the PM was just the leader of the party in power, something that should have been obvious in retrospect, but I'd always assumed he was independently elected, for some bizarre logic.

One interesting point about the British system is the quality of our politics--call it more refined, more staid or more eloquent depending on your point of view--is partly based on the fact that nobody has to speak to the whole country to get elected because there is no post with such a big electorate. The closest thing to a 'presidential' type election is the recently instituted elected mayor of (Greater) London, which has an electorate of about five million, and it's interesting that in its short history the position has attracted larger-than-life populist mavericks that you'd rarely see in the House of Commons. But I digress.

 

[Nicomacheus]

Interesting tidbits of the ENA's balance of power between Empire and Confederation:

1) the Treaty of Nashborough is between the Confederation of Carolina and the Grand Duchy of Louisiana. It doesn't seem to require any Imperial assent.

2) Do I understand correctly that the Confederation of New England lacks any ability to call on a militia or regular troops to combat a rebellion. I presume the regulars are under the command of Empire (since they're supposed to American contributions to the British armed forces). I'm more surprised that there isn't a militia, given how strong an institution they were in the colonial period OTL (and until the 1860s). I'd would have expected the Confederations to retain militia powers similar to OTL US states. Have the provinces retained that power or is it Imperial?

As always, brilliant update.

 

[Thande]

Interesting tidbits of the ENA's balance of power between Empire and Confederation:

1) the Treaty of Nashborough is between the Confederation of Carolina and the Grand Duchy of Louisiana. It doesn't seem to require any Imperial assent.

2) Do I understand correctly that the Confederation of New England lacks any ability to call on a militia or regular troops to combat a rebellion. I presume the regulars are under the command of Empire (since they're supposed to American contributions to the British armed forces). I'm more surprised that there isn't a militia, given how strong an institution they were in the colonial period OTL (and until the 1860s). I'd would have expected the Confederations to retain militia powers similar to OTL US states. Have the provinces retained that power or is it Imperial?

As always, brilliant update.

1) Basically this represents power creep from the fact that the Confederations routinely conduct treaties with the Indians (as the colonies did before them, as in OTL) and because the business with the Cherokee and the Attigna...that Huron tribe north of Louisiana was fundamentally about the French and Carolinians playing politics with them (secretly paying the Indians to conduct raids supposedly of their own will, etc.) that meant that the eventual rapproachment and treaty also went through Charleston rather than Fredericksburg. Whether this is constitutionally proper, though, shall be an increasingly important issue in the 1826-31 Parliament.

2) New England does have the authority to call on a militia, it's just hampered by the fact that said militia was mostly organised to put down Catholic revolts and their bitter experiences in doing so means that it's made up mostly of the kind of men who vote Salem Movement/Trust. Who are the ones revolting. So...yeah.

 

[Alex Richards]

One interesting point about the British system is the quality of our politics--call it more refined, more staid or more eloquent depending on your point of view--is partly based on the fact that nobody has to speak to the whole country to get elected because there is no post with such a big electorate. The closest thing to a 'presidential' type election is the recently instituted elected mayor of (Greater) London, which has an electorate of about five million, and it's interesting that in its short history the position has attracted larger-than-life populist mavericks that you'd rarely see in the House of Commons. But I digress.

It certainly is a good point against republicanism in Britain, that the most likely people in recent years to be elected President are Blair and Johnson.

 

[Thande]

It certainly is a good point against republicanism in Britain, that the most likely people in recent years to be elected President are Blair and Johnson.

Heh, true enough. But let's not bring too much (OTL) politics into this thread

 

[Turquoise Blue]

Will Nugax post more of those lovely maps?

 

[Thande]

Will Nugax post more of those lovely maps?

If he wants to, but don't press him.

 

[Thande]

A little interruption for an advertisement.

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Advertisement over.

 

[Umbric Man]

I applaud you on your new cities, their names, and their locales! I was wondering what the new places would be and it's good you have a great eye for where new burgs would grow up upon. Very interesting. May I assume that most of the colonial/early major OTL republic cities will stay important into the present day of TTL (St. Augustine, Augusta/Sophia, Portsmouth NH)?

Remind me which Pulteney exactly is Wilmington renamed for? The Delawarean in me must know...

Also, what and why the name Corte? Seems oddly Hispanic in still vastly-Anglo Georgia.

(I'll post comments later on the rest of the entry - I promise! You just know me, mapping and toponymy, I had to get it out of the way right now...)

 

[Thande]

Remind me which Pulteney exactly is Wilmington renamed for? The Delawarean in me must know...

Wilmington was named for Spencer Compton, the Earl of Wilmington, who was George II's second Prime Minister (briefly). This is also true in TTL, but Compton is a figure associated with the former regime in Britain before the Second Glorious Revolution, so it was hastily changed to be named after William Pulteney, the leader of Frederick's jailed supporters in Britain in the 1730s and 40s (and Frederick's Prime Minister after the Second Glorious Revolution).

Also, what and why the name Corte? Seems oddly Hispanic in still vastly-Anglo Georgia.

Corte is named for the capital of the Corsican Republic: the original town founders in the 1750s were admirers of the Corsicans with their liberal constitution (and note a certain political liberalism has survived, hence why it's the only seat in Carolina to vote Radical). There are OTL examples of this like the town of Paoli in Pennsylvania, named after the Corsican President Pasquale Paoli.

I appreciate your comments and analysis!

 

[Analytical Engine]

Actually the factions didn't break up until after the election: the collapse of the Patriot vote happened despite a lack of rival candidates.

Ah.

I retconned it away because a Pole pointed out to me that Russia would have grabbed those territories for itself during the War of the Polish Partition. It's not actually Galicia, it's more like Ruthenia.

Fair enough.

Showing the previous tabular data slightly more visually:

*drools*

How did you get to be so awesome?