Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by Thande, Jan 1, 2011.
Interesting - so the ENA develops multi-party politics?
Better than a two-party system IMO.
I enjoyed the bit about the Neutral Party's origins...
I agree, the multi party system is more effective, and way cooler .
Were the people in the First Muti-Party section actually around in OTL?
Not with a POD of 1727, but some people from the same families as OTL crop up. Occasionally they even have the same names as OTL people because names run in families, but they're not the same people as OTL.
Very interesting, as always. The government of North America ITTL seems rather chaotic. It seems like the ENA is effectively independent, but following Britain's lead internationally. The bit about the declaration of war on the UPSA seems to indicate that the ENA is able to have its own foreign policy separate from Britain's.
As always, you leave us on a cliffhanger. The Popular Wars just keep getting more and more foreboding.
Was covered in preceding segments. Basically the ENA has got progressively more powers for its government largely by accident due to the Jacobin Wars. Firstly they got the power to raise their own regiments to help out Britain in the first phase of the wars (hence the Ministry of Domestic Regiments), then the first elements of their independent foreign policy came about through direct negotiations with New Spain in 1802 over the Noochaland crisis, and since Britain got half-wrecked by the French invasion, the ENA has more or less been completely running itself.
I wish I could write this well. Good work as always.
America returns! And with a most interesting update!
1. You know, Frederick I's Colonial Act is almost how I imagined it. IE, far more symbolic and feel-good than anything else. Good to know I guessed right for it after all.
2. Ah, funky to see the OTL bits of 'American MPs in Westminster' and the 'no taxation without representation' cry crop up anyhoo. Though even in one early post you mentioned 'radical grumblings in New England and New York' one could imagine to be the much-less effectual *Samuel Adams whining for pure omfg-independence. *eyeroll* In TTL's context these seem almost more absurd than OTL. Would to see an Imperial citizen's reaction to the USA!
3. 'Patriots' as a synonym for 'Tory' is utterly hilarious to those who know their Revolutionary history...
4. I find the Southrons' willingness to grant Rights-of-Englishmen status to Cuban aristocrats VERY interesting, considering they eyed the island to give land to soil-hungry settlers. Can I be right in guessing Cuba will basically become a Hispanic New York (state) of sorts? IE eventually an Anglo majority in blood, totally so in language, but with an upper class very proud and conscious of their original roots like the Roosevelts and the Schuylers were of their Dutch origins in OTL?
5. AH! So the oft-hinted westerner opposition to the eastern seaboard finally makes its debut. That the west now has its own political tradition (if terribly young) will be VERY interesting and butterfly-fueled, since in OTL they cleaved to whichever party promised them the most. It's also interesting to see these feelings and politicians come out of the southern and not northern-based part of the nation like OTL...especially with much of southern 'western' land being occupied by Cherokees, Louisianians, etc (although one supposes 'west' for the Southrons includes the West Indies, I suppose, or making that big a leap into appealing to the ENTIRE 'west'. Also, I am now sick of using directional words all the bloody time now. )
6. My only quibble is that Artemas Ward should be Artemas Ward, Jr. If you meant the Revolutionary War hero, he'd be like past 90 by the 1800s.
7. Nice touch on melding the Pittsburgh Whiskey Rebellion and Boston Tea Party into one big shindig. 1768 is a bit early for the burgh to have such a rebellion with its size...but again, I'm aware Anglo settlement seems to have started up westward a good bit earlier than OTL. I don't think a *Proclamation of 1763 was mentioned. And it's only three years before the North Commission is completed and seems to allow settlement past Cisappalachia anyhoo.
8. Oh, my noble Delaware, so small, pitiful, yet still successfully whining for some special rights all to themselves. That'll teach you, Pennsylvania. You'll never fully control us again! Seriously, though, kudos for remembering that sense of American individuality in the smaller provinces and naturally incorporating it into politics.
9. I have an idea on what the American Popular Wars might entail and their equivalents, but I might PM you to ramble on what they might be.
Huzah! Back in the ENA. I like the Neutral Party and what I assume to be a reference to the CSA. Popular Wars will manifest itself as some sort of war over slavery I can only assume.
Can we get a little hint of what the next post will be on? Do we return to the Ottoman Empire to watch its further crumble, do we get some European update to reset its mood? Or perhaps we travel across the Pacific from the ENA and check the developments in China, India or *Australia (I forgot if it had an alt-name and if so what)?
It is supposed to be his son, yes, I just forgot America's fondness for specifying what generation you are if you share your father's name. (And yes it is probably still the case in TTL, I just forgot).
No there was never an equivalent to the 1763 proclamation, partly because of the different Indian alliances in the Third War of Supremacy, partly because France retained Louisiana and London is all 'we'd better try and get some settlers out west to threaten it' and partly because London is a bit more sensitive to what the Americans want. Though not enough--hence all the troubles over taxation and the alt-Quebec Act (which is much milder than OTL's, more 'they get to keep their old rights' rather than 'and they also take half the land you wanted' - and besides it gets thrown out anyway after the 1780s Canadian rebellion).
Thanks for your general comments.
I generally don't know where a post will cover until I write it. I do need to write more on China I think before I get back to the Ottomans. Also Africa at some point...and New Spain...LTTW is like painting the Forth Bridge, by the time you've finished one end it's time to start on the other again
Good to see this back! It's always been one of my favorite pre-1900 TLs.
When I read "Metallic Spectrum", I immediately thought it'd go gold-silver-copper from right to left. Although I had expected that "iron" would necessarily follow. (Maybe it will, in the future?)
Also, this sounds a bit like the story of the Golden / Silver / Copper / Iron Age.
I can see Electrum being the colour for centre-right, and Bronze for centre-left.
Platinum would probably be far-right, though what far-left would be, I don't know. Maybe that would be iron, for the "iron will of the people" or something...
And of course it now has you narrating it
Interesting, and confusing, and interesting again. I too enjoyed the Patriots/Tories gag. I'm now torn between wanting to know more detail of what's happening in the Ottoman Empire and the details of the ENA's westward expansion!
From thande's comments, it appears that only *Japan in ATL-present really sucks compared to our world. I think it's just easier to focus on the bad parts then the good. For instance, as mentioned there were apparently no troubles in *Ireland.
Platinum was mentioned in the defnitions above thread as a sort of moderate policy.
Ah yes, the Lakhota wars sound very interesting...
I think you're thinking of Adamantianism, which is different. I haven't mentioned any other metals, although the commenters here do have some interesting ideas.
Already been covered in a previous post--this was mostly a recap post until the end where it covers the formation of the Neutral Party.
Lovely update. I can just imagine our HIGNFY, Punch or Private Eye analogues running with that 'we are neutral on that issue' gag even in the 21st Century
I ROTFLMAO'ed at the Radical/Neutral coalition. (Someone should get the gag)
THANK you. I can't believe we went this long without someone getting it
The last five political posts on the ENA have been leading up to that one gag, after all
Separate names with a comma.